[SPOILERS] Post-year situation

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fearitha
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[SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#1 Post by fearitha » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:29 pm

I finished two romance runs, with Minnie and with Barbara, and both had the same problem - lady refusing to follow hero to Europe as she had no business there/her business in America is too important. Still, why it was never raised the question of PC actually staying in America for full course?

As far as I get it, no special reason exists for his family to be somehow afraid: information of his familiar status isn't something to hurt them. It's quite clear all this charade with hiding real person was by PC request, who tired to be treated as a prince, whose favor is to win. Yes, I got that he would need to assume Mantle of the Wood, but it's not something that going to happen this or next year, right? It will eventually happen, and until then it's perfectly logical for him to be outside his kingdom as much as possible. He wouldn't be able to leave as soon as he assume Mantle, and as ruler he would need understanding of other countries and allies aboard. The magic of Illyria is described to be very similar to pentachromatic system of Iris Academy, so his studies would be useful later. And in US there is a lot of wildseeds around, who are definitely are a huge factor in current magical politics, with Aquarius Disaster and simple demography. Even if for Illyria itself (I believe it's western Balkans, right?) it's not exactly an issue, it is for the world as a whole, and Illyria definitely isn't isolated. After four years in the USA he actually would be better king.

So, why can't hero stay?

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Arent
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#2 Post by Arent » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:19 pm

Well, depends on how pressing it is to learn how to use the magic in Illyria. That could take several years. In one ending the main character speaks about having to go to school there for several years and invites his crush to join him.

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fearitha
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#3 Post by fearitha » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:47 pm

Arent wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:19 pm
Well, depends on how pressing it is to learn how to use the magic in Illyria. That could take several years. In one ending the main character speaks about having to go to school there for several years and invites his crush to join him.
That's the point - pentachromatic system is, essentially, the same thing that his national approach. I would understand it if Illyrians has very singular approach to magic. By the way, it would also explain why PC, who is damned royalty from magical kingdom, is so inept in magic - I believe 1st years from other magical families, like Victoria or Donald, are better from the very beginning. The legend could be that he actually can do magic, but it's so uncommon for Iris system that he hide it, trying not to be identified.
Still, the very similarity was highlighted by Grabiner, who actually buffled why did PC family selected Iris Academy, where he would no learn "other ways" (which is official story). And nothing in story declares that character is under some hurry or something: he do understand that he would inherit Mantle eventually, but it's not like it would happen tomorrow or the next year.

My own money would be that PCs father just distrust Postdam, and isn't ready to give her his heir. Student's well-being, after all, never was a priority in Iris Academy.

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Arent
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#4 Post by Arent » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:56 pm

fearitha wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:47 pm
I would understand it if Illyrians has very singular approach to magic.
Well, yes, I think his family has a special 'talent'/'magic' and this needs to be developed. It could even be that this special kind of magic is not taught at *any* school, but in fact kept secret in the family.

But the exact background only the creators themselves can tell.

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hanako
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#5 Post by hanako » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:21 pm

Mild clarification: Grabiner says that Iris Academy's magical style is the most European of the American schools... less of a conceptual stretch than other schools would have been. He does not describe it as nearly identical to the PC's own magical style. Just not as different as the other styles would have been. (Magic as Ms. Darden practices it is VERY different from what Potsdam teaches.)

Several routes, iirc, mention that the PC is going to need to start over from scratch when he returns to his own schooling system.

Since we don't see exactly how the PC's home magical system works, we don't have any clear evidence about how similar or not it is.

Consider the differences in an English-speaker learning French vs an English-speaker learning Finnish. French is a whole lot closer to English than Finnish is, but that doesn't make it essentially the same thing.

If I'm forgetting a line somewhere that says otherwise, let me know.

That doesn't mean you're not right about other things, I just wanted to clarify on this one point as that's not quite what Grabiner says. :)

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fearitha
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#6 Post by fearitha » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:46 pm

Grabiner: "I'm not certain why you're here at all. Your parents claimed they wished for you to learn about other ways. Yet Iris Academy is well known to be the most 'European' of American schools. It's true that you would never been accepted for study at Sacred Smoke, but there are other options. St. John's in MIssissippi - 'The Root' - represent a blending of disparate American traditions. Training in hoodoo there would bring a valuable perspective to your magic. The pentochromatic system taught here, however, is not so different from your own. What, then, is the point?"
Possible answer: "Hey, I'm not an expert. I'm just starting out. If the way they do things here is too different, it'll just confuse me when I go back home to finish studying, right? This is just a taste of what it's like to be somewhere else. When I'm older, I can study in more depth."
Grabiner: "Reasonable."

So, it can be some stretch from my side, but from this dialog I had quite a implication that pentochromatic system is essentially the same way as Illyrian magic, maybe with some local differences, like things that Iris calls "White magic" in Illyria called "Spirit magic", and they make some pressure on topics which Postdam would neglect, and vise versa. But essentially it's like learning music in French school instead of learning music in England (opposed to learning the five-ton music in China).
Of course, "not so different" is a matter of subjective. But obviously Grabiner doubt that differences between pentochromatic system and Illyrian magic aren't even validate "learning other ways" claim.

(of course, I tend to overanalysis)

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#7 Post by Arent » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:30 am

fearitha wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:46 pm
So, it can be some stretch from my side, but from this dialog I had quite a implication that pentochromatic system is essentially the same way as Illyrian magic
Well, maybe. I mean, I get where you are coming from: The endings are left a bit open to imagination. But it's maybe also realistic: If you were an exchange student in a foreign country and would meet a summer fling, would you try to extend your stay or simply agree to 'write each other'?

On the other hand, you can always imagine that the main character takes off a second year to visit again. Of course, since this is a fantasy story, Hanako Games could have gone with the romantic version of 'they lived happily ever after'. But they choose a more open ended or maybe down to earth end, where everyone agrees to stick to their responsibilities. Which does maybe dissappoint some more romantically inclined readers.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#8 Post by fearitha » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:32 pm

Arent wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:30 am
If you were an exchange student in a foreign country and would meet a summer fling, would you try to extend your stay or simply agree to 'write each other'?
That actually depends. It depends of the power of said flinch, of how much I liked in this place beyond said flinch, how good is education there. But I'm sure I would select "extend my stay" approach before "let's go to my country, dear". And second one is discussed in both routes I saw.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#9 Post by Arent » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:51 pm

fearitha wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:32 pm
Arent wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:30 am
If you were an exchange student in a foreign country and would meet a summer fling, would you try to extend your stay or simply agree to 'write each other'?
That actually depends. It depends of the power of said flinch, of how much I liked in this place beyond said flinch, how good is education there. But I'm sure I would select "extend my stay" approach before "let's go to my country, dear". And second one is discussed in both routes I saw.
I'm not native in English, but I think it's "fling".

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fearitha
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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#10 Post by fearitha » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:58 pm

I think you right; I'm not native in English either. :) I was distracted and used another word I was using in completely different context the same time. Sorry a lot.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#11 Post by NG14916 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:20 am

Arent wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:30 am
fearitha wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:46 pm
So, it can be some stretch from my side, but from this dialog I had quite a implication that pentochromatic system is essentially the same way as Illyrian magic
Well, maybe. I mean, I get where you are coming from: The endings are left a bit open to imagination. But it's maybe also realistic: If you were an exchange student in a foreign country and would meet a summer fling, would you try to extend your stay or simply agree to 'write each other'?

On the other hand, you can always imagine that the main character takes off a second year to visit again. Of course, since this is a fantasy story, Hanako Games could have gone with the romantic version of 'they lived happily ever after'. But they choose a more open ended or maybe down to earth end, where everyone agrees to stick to their responsibilities. Which does maybe dissappoint some more romantically inclined readers.
It's realistic but it also makes me feel like almost nothing the protagonist does in the story matters. All friends lost, all relationships lost, and then goes back to Europe to be stuck in one place for the rest of his life. I'm not sure why we had to play as an exchange student at all when we didn't in the first game. It sets the whole story up for tragedy from the very beginning. I had been hoping that at the very least you could choose to stay in America for the rest of high school. Then after graduation there might still be some hope for relationships continuing.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#12 Post by Arent » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:51 am

NG14916 wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:20 am

It's realistic but it also makes me feel like almost nothing the protagonist does in the story matters. All friends lost, all relationships lost, and then goes back to Europe to be stuck in one place for the rest of his life. I'm not sure why we had to play as an exchange student at all when we didn't in the first game. It sets the whole story up for tragedy from the very beginning. I had been hoping that at the very least you could choose to stay in America for the rest of high school. Then after graduation there might still be some hope for relationships continuing.
Well, as I said, it might disappoint some more romantically inclined people. I would have preferred if there had been some endings where you go back to your county, others, where you maybe extend your stay.

But it also says a lot about the writers at Hanako, apparently they are very responsible and down to earth people :wink:

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#13 Post by hanako » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:58 am

They're not all lost... At least two relationships explicitly do follow you home, and a few others have strong potential to visit you in the near future.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#14 Post by Arent » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:05 pm

hanako wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:58 am
They're not all lost... At least two relationships explicitly do follow you home, and a few others have strong potential to visit you in the near future.
Oh, which ones? I have to admit I only played the girl routes, so part of the game is lost on me.

Well, if there are some endings which continue the romance, I think it's fine. It would be boring if all endings would be fairytale romances.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Post-year situation

#15 Post by MillaMaxwell » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:39 pm

Arent wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:05 pm
hanako wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:58 am
They're not all lost... At least two relationships explicitly do follow you home, and a few others have strong potential to visit you in the near future.
Oh, which ones? I have to admit I only played the girl routes, so part of the game is lost on me.

Well, if there are some endings which continue the romance, I think it's fine. It would be boring if all endings would be fairytale romances.
I believe Hanako is referring to the William and Damien routes. Some of the side routes like Corrinna also imply that the character is strongly considering going to Illyria. They just don't have a post-credits scene to confirm it like the main routes do.

I've noticed that a lot of "blank slate" protagonists in Hanako games aren't quite blank slates. For example, Mary Sue in Horse Hall will always be somewhat sporty and Elsa in Black Closet will always be hard-working and ambitious to some degree. I rather like this aspect as it makes the characters a little more grounded and able to interact with a solid storyline than in games where your blank slate protagonist's personality is completely up to the player to decide. So with that in mind, I think Gary Stu's basic characteristic is that he's serious about his responsibility to his homeland. Everything else about him is customizable, but that one thing always holds true for him. And it has the downside of forcing some relationships to end because he would not choose to neglect his duty to prepare for the Mantle of the Woods. (The only ending I've found where he actually does something that isn't in the best interests of his country is one where he was super emotional in the moment and couldn't think ahead to the consequences, as opposed to the romance endings where he is able to rationally think through his options.)

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