Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

Male protagonist, in the Hall for bold and athletic boys.
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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#31 Post by hanako » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:39 pm

surreal_chameleon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:44 pm

Some thoughts on the endings:

General: I looked far and wide for opportunities to "lose your honor, your life, or even your soul", but to no avail. Do these opportunities exist? If they don't, would you consider putting some in? Or at least one tragic outcome for the Damien storyline that's comparable to what happened in the Horse Hall one?
To a large extent that's meant to drum up suspense and tension for the Damien ritual scene, though it is not actually possible for WolfPC to lose his soul even to the extent that a bad-end HorsePC does. Following through with the Damien romance ending, though, could be considered losing his honor, as it's a pretty Dark Side ending. I can think of a way to put in another bad end to the Damien route, but I'm not sure which sort of outcome from Horse Hall you're thinking of, so I'm not sure if it will hit the button.
A few questions:

In the electioneering cut-in picture, there's a picture of Jacob and an individual from Toad Hall campaigning. Is the Toad a major character? Maybe the South Asian man mentioned in the Thanksgiving scene?
Nope, not the same guy. That Toad is a character whose name is mentioned only once, very briefly, and as he's not a freshman or a senior, he's not likely to ever be a featured character. At least, I have no big plans for him and no sprite.
Which house does Anisha belong to?
Horse. Anisha and Liz are Virginia and Ellen's neighbors.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#32 Post by Runespoor » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:16 am

Played through Damien's route (I hate both how long it takes me to do anything and how utterly predictable I am). My comments contain spoilers for Horse Hall.

Question: is the only way to obtain a romantic ending with him to tempt him with other victims? My comments depend on that. (IT'S GREAT and totally coherent with the fact that Gary did see Damien try to kill someone else, and for him to try and pursue Damien in a romantic sense after that, well...)

The contrast between the Damien romance in Horse Hall and the Damien romance in Wolf Hall is super interesting, from a gender perspective - to remain involved with Damien, Mary Sue has to remain a potential victim, and Gary Stu has to become a potential abuser. Mary Sue also was the only one at risk during the gymnasium scene, while Gary Stu's life wasn't at risk, it was someone else. As I said: I think that's super interesting. :D

One thing I did feel while playing through Damien's route was that it's all about William - or mostly about William, at least. (Damien comes across as less over William than he did in HH, too.) It really made me look forward to playing William's route, but I did come away kind of wishing we had a scene of Damien being a bit more vulnerable/less closed off.

To clarify: Horse!Damien route features Damien unravelling/groveling and a lakeside discussion with PC able to let out her own emotions (including physically hitting Damien). Yeah, Damien's manipulating PC because he hates the thought of losing her, but otoh, we know he does hate the thought of losing her, through the Echoes scene. He's being manipulative but he's not being deceptive and he's not holding much back, emotionally speaking (i think). It's a lot of oompf.

In Wolf!Damien route, I didn't feel that Damien's impacted by PC or by his relationship with PC. I think that a sign that therea's an impact not just on PC (and on William) but on Damien would be welcome, either a sign that PC matters to Damien, or that Damien sees a connection (possibly despite himself). Maybe he could remark during the confrontation by the movie theater that Gary too has been lying and using people? Similarly, if there's a token between the confrontation and the ball, I missed it. I know Wolf!Damien hasn't had the opportunity Horse!Damien did, to realize that oh shit he does care a lot about PC, because the gymnasium confrontation goes very differently, and then Gary Stu is the one looking for Damien unprompted, so the emotional unravelling would be v. different. But I think the confrontation scene would work better with a bit more emotional oompf.


Edit: and I would be 100000% down for a Damien bad/worse ending!!!!!

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#33 Post by surreal_chameleon » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:33 am

Spoilers for a Horse Hall ending: The bad ending I had in mind is the one where the pc loses her magical powers. A worthy equivalent in this game would be something with lasting negative consequences to the pc. Public disgrace, someone gets hurt in a way that will haunt the pc with lifelong guilt, Grabiner makes good on the threat he made toward the pc at the begining of the game... okay, maybe not the last one. This isn't a game in the Long Live the Queen franchise.

Do the donations you make toward the May Ball have any effect on the storyline? I didn't notice any difference.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#34 Post by hanako » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:17 pm

0.8.20

* Suki side route added.
* New Damien bad end added if you refuse to give up on him.
* Damien ball finale tweaked (sharpening up the dynamic)
* Cameo character added to ticket sales at the Spring Play on post-Damien outcomes.
* Laurel Sports Club reference added.

* Crash when Loveland Frog decides whether or not to block the player fixed.
* Pushing yourself down the hole in the final now goes to the final-exam-failed scene.
* Pushing partymembers down the abyss no longer crashes.
* A crash in randmap.is_unimportant() fixed, which may also fix some of the bugs where random dungeons get weird random inaccessible bits.
* Cell-targeter horizontal scroll buttons now visible.
* Cell-targeter buttons have arrows.
* Seeker Sting description in.
* Seeker Sting damage message now shows amount of damage done.
* Distraction now announces "The X appears Distracted".
* Distraction wearing off should be announced.
* Can now [spoiler] the Big Jelly.
* Distraction now only lasts for 1 turn.
* Exhilaration spelling corrected.
* Dragon club comma pulled.
* Grabiner now stars in on the Dec 14 detention.
* Hide the "Low Money" effect tab on the 14th.
* can_see() should now return False when we've been removed from a level.
* Non-dungeon help disabled.
* Dungeon help now disabled when the say or say_slidein dialogues are up.
* Dungeon help button now grays out when say and say_slidein dialogues are up.
* Giving up in the tutorial no longer leaves the help in dungeon mode.
* Auto button disabled on save paginator.
* Debug messages trimmed.


Suki's route is... kinda weird. (So is Suki!) To get to it: Try to join the Dragon Club. Do NOT run for President at all, since if you run you won't see Suki run. Take a lot of green magic in October until you trigger a conversation with her talking about dragons. Get detention during the December exam (easiest way is to let the cat kill you). This should trigger a conversation with Suki after that detention. After that conversation you can choose her at Christmas.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#35 Post by Runespoor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:31 pm

The new Damien scenes/tweaks are *chef's kiss*. :D :D :D :D :D Sharper dynamic is good. Now I feel like I can ship them without reservation. :D

comment with more spoilers for Horse Hall: love that Wolf!PC's bad Damien ending hits because he's trying to take too much, while Horse!PC's hit because she was giving away of herself too much.

Also, tangent: am I the only who read the no-power ending of Horse Hall as not the worst end? I definitely get why it's the one people refer to when they speak of bad end, and I know I do the same, but for me the worst ending was Snake Hall. No-powers ending give Mary Sue a lot of power over Damien, as per the text of the epilogue, whereas Snake Hall ending, to me, basically confirmed to Damien that yes Mary Sue would keep doing stuff for him, and it also makes Mary Sue lose her own "social status"/the trust of her classmates (and with William graduating, she'd also lose that mirror/potential support). Long-term Snake Hall might work out perfectly fine, of course; but the very "us against the world" vibe of the no-powers ending kept it out of the 'bad ending' slot for me.


A related worldbuilding question: is it common for students to switch Houses?

also I realized just now I've never actually done a playthrough where I saw the Spring Play. Is it because of Chorale? nothing to see I just had a brain fart. :oops:
Last edited by Runespoor on Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#36 Post by hanako » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:42 pm

That's odd. If you were on a Damien route you should have gone to the spring play with William.

About all I can say on Hall-switching is that we've got multiple examples of it in canon, so it's not super-rare. (Blaise may or may not have changed Halls multiple times.)

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#37 Post by Runespoor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:44 pm

Well, it's always possible I'm confusing dates, or something similarly embarrassing. Remind me the date?

EDIT: NEVERMIND that's exactly what happened. *facepalm* Well, I apologise for worrying you about this. :oops:

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#38 Post by hanako » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:34 pm

to answer the earlier question about fundraising for the ball: it doesn't affect anything and is just a way to interact with the Student Council. (I considered having it make a difference on Manuel's route but then decided Manuel is too nice to be stroppy about it.)

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#39 Post by surreal_chameleon » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:49 pm

You can't attend the play on Suki's route. This is still holds true regardless of the choice you make on Valentine's day.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#40 Post by Runespoor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:53 pm

Minnie and PC are adorbs. I love their dynamic, I love the parallels/contrasts between them, I love that Minnie had guessed something, I love that the Pastel situation doesn't last, I love that PC pictures her as a cheerleader at the end. And they are so cute.

Idealists! Politicking! For! A! Better! World!!!!!!! <333333

Scheming!Minnie!mancing PC is such a fit for Falcon, I can see Grabiner grumble under his breath from here. :)

Now we know more about Minnie's background, I'm very curious about her relationship with Grabiner. Before, any curiosity I had there mostly concerned the Horse Hall thing (Grabiner going to check on Minnie at PC's request re:Kyo); now, I'm wondering what each knows/thinks about the other's history/priorities.

On a completely different topic, I don't suppose there's any plan to for "voted most likely to + probable future career" in the yearbook like there was in Horse Hall?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#41 Post by hanako » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:13 am

On a completely different topic, I don't suppose there's any plan to for "voted most likely to + probable future career" in the yearbook like there was in Horse Hall?
Not at the moment. I felt like they didn't really add that much meaning and distinction to the yearbook pages and that the new information says more about your individual playthrough (personality type, clubs, exams, etc). If I come up with some fun ideas later, though, something might get added.
You can't attend the play on Suki's route.
Can't attend at all or can't attend with her? (The latter was intended, the former would be a bug.)

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#42 Post by surreal_chameleon » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:45 am

You can't attend at all. The decision menu simply doesn't show up.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#43 Post by Arent » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:11 am

hanako wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:13 am
On a completely different topic, I don't suppose there's any plan to for "voted most likely to + probable future career" in the yearbook like there was in Horse Hall?
Not at the moment. I felt like they didn't really add that much meaning and distinction to the yearbook pages and that the new information says more about your individual playthrough (personality type, clubs, exams, etc). If I come up with some fun ideas later, though, something might get added.
In my humble opinion: Keep it simple. You have already lots of little details & secret routes.

I also have some suggestions that would be very funny & great to add to the game, however, I didn't post them. Simply because they are not necessary & it's more important to finish the game & start earning money. One can always do another sequel.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#44 Post by Runespoor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:41 pm

Got a small bug on a reload: I saved and reloaded at the start of the Clubs Meeting (when the CG appears). Upon reloading, the CG was half-hidden under the text banner at the bottom of the screen. (If that's a known problem, orz.)

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Re: Wolf Hall - Beta Testing Thread

#45 Post by manfromba » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:09 pm

How does a player unlock Suki's route?

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