Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

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MillaMaxwell
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#271 Post by MillaMaxwell » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:36 pm

phoenixgirl wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:39 am
Now, I wouldn't have an issue being co-president with Minnie if she didn't come off as sycophantic and manipulative. She downright attacks the MC during the campaign speeches (which I find to be dirty) if you refuse to agree to be co-president with her. The MC makes a valid point that no matter who wins, it should be based on what the people think. Also, I'd think that if you pull out all the stops, not sparing any expense, you should win over Minnie.
I found another thing that annoys me about this whole situation. If you study on the weekend following the election, Minnie approaches you with a no-hard-feelings attitude and all of your dialogue options are along the lines of "the best candidate won" or "hey, I said I wanted the voters to decide and they did so I'm fine." That makes sense in a normal election where she never offers you the co-presidency and just beats you fair and square, but it just doesn't seem fitting to be so friendly after she talked trash about you in her speech, which I agree is pretty dirty politics for a student council election. I really wish there was a dialogue option here where you could call her out or at least tell her you don't want to be friendly after how she behaved. If I remember correctly, you've already locked yourself out of Minnie's route by that point anyway because you turned down the co-presidency, so it's not like that would be ruining a potential Minnie path and it would feel quite nice for a frustrated player.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#272 Post by jellybi » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:44 pm

I got to the end of a green magic focused Minnie path run! It looks like whatever glitches originally were causing the high-level magic playthrough to crash were fixed in one of the recent updates, so hooray! My take on Minnie is that I like that she's a little complicated/potentially manipulative, and I'm interested in seeing where that goes, especially if it turns out she's kind of benevolently manipulative and is sidelining MC for what she sees as noble reasons. That's more interesting to me than if she were just an ambitious jerk because it's a little more complicated, and I feel like there are plenty of indications that she's reasonably sincere about wanting to help other students. If that's not the case and she actually is just ambitious or has some specific personal motivation, that would be... kind of interesting, too? So I don't personally feel like her route so far needs any major changes. I guess it might be a little disappointing if I got to the end and that subtle edge she seems to have didn't get explored, like if the main narrative thrust was that "she's a workaholic but otherwise perfect." It would be fun if there were more ways for the MC to try to compete with her/be more proactive as a co-president, but not a dealbreaker for me, just another shiny thing to try! I did enjoy how the "sporty" trait triggered the MC to step up and try harder at selling the candles after Minnie kind of took that over for him, and wondered if the Flirty trait triggered another spin on the same idea.

Looking forward to another run to check out the tweaks to the Damien path!

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#273 Post by phoenixgirl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:09 am

MillaMaxwell wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:36 pm
phoenixgirl wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:39 am
Now, I wouldn't have an issue being co-president with Minnie if she didn't come off as sycophantic and manipulative. She downright attacks the MC during the campaign speeches (which I find to be dirty) if you refuse to agree to be co-president with her. The MC makes a valid point that no matter who wins, it should be based on what the people think. Also, I'd think that if you pull out all the stops, not sparing any expense, you should win over Minnie.
I found another thing that annoys me about this whole situation. If you study on the weekend following the election, Minnie approaches you with a no-hard-feelings attitude and all of your dialogue options are along the lines of "the best candidate won" or "hey, I said I wanted the voters to decide and they did so I'm fine." That makes sense in a normal election where she never offers you the co-presidency and just beats you fair and square, but it just doesn't seem fitting to be so friendly after she talked trash about you in her speech, which I agree is pretty dirty politics for a student council election. I really wish there was a dialogue option here where you could call her out or at least tell her you don't want to be friendly after how she behaved. If I remember correctly, you've already locked yourself out of Minnie's route by that point anyway because you turned down the co-presidency, so it's not like that would be ruining a potential Minnie path and it would feel quite nice for a frustrated player.
Heh, I hear you. I like your idea as well.

I know this is most unlikely to happen but if we were to have the option to beat Minnie and win the presidency, I totally wouldn't mind being shut off her path. I got to play the rest of her path and yeah, she is nice when she offers to make the MC a snack after they return from selling candles but, in my opinion, it doesn't redeem her enough to make her likable. She continues to take over duties and the MC has a right to feel a bit ticked. Oh and I actually do think the MC would be better as a president on his own. I feel like he wouldn't get in Barbara's face and tick her off. :lol:
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fairfaxleasee
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Lazy Alternative

#274 Post by fairfaxleasee » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi,

So I just started playing the demo (I know, I've had a while and it's ridiculous that I'm just now doing it), and I was just wondering if you considered changing the "lazy" label to something else ("apathetic" or "aloof" or something like that).

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#275 Post by Runespoor » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:46 pm

phoenixgirl wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:09 am
MillaMaxwell wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:36 pm
phoenixgirl wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:39 am
Now, I wouldn't have an issue being co-president with Minnie if she didn't come off as sycophantic and manipulative. She downright attacks the MC during the campaign speeches (which I find to be dirty) if you refuse to agree to be co-president with her. The MC makes a valid point that no matter who wins, it should be based on what the people think. Also, I'd think that if you pull out all the stops, not sparing any expense, you should win over Minnie.
I found another thing that annoys me about this whole situation. If you study on the weekend following the election, Minnie approaches you with a no-hard-feelings attitude and all of your dialogue options are along the lines of "the best candidate won" or "hey, I said I wanted the voters to decide and they did so I'm fine." That makes sense in a normal election where she never offers you the co-presidency and just beats you fair and square, but it just doesn't seem fitting to be so friendly after she talked trash about you in her speech, which I agree is pretty dirty politics for a student council election. I really wish there was a dialogue option here where you could call her out or at least tell her you don't want to be friendly after how she behaved. If I remember correctly, you've already locked yourself out of Minnie's route by that point anyway because you turned down the co-presidency, so it's not like that would be ruining a potential Minnie path and it would feel quite nice for a frustrated player.
Heh, I hear you. I like your idea as well.

I know this is most unlikely to happen but if we were to have the option to beat Minnie and win the presidency, I totally wouldn't mind being shut off her path. I got to play the rest of her path and yeah, she is nice when she offers to make the MC a snack after they return from selling candles but, in my opinion, it doesn't redeem her enough to make her likable. She continues to take over duties and the MC has a right to feel a bit ticked. Oh and I actually do think the MC would be better as a president on his own. I feel like he wouldn't get in Barbara's face and tick her off. :lol:
Yeah, I think the option to be pissed at Minnie for her speech should you turn down the presidency should exist.

And I say that as someone who disagrees almost entirely with the rest of your comments. :wink:

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#276 Post by ParrotWatcher » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Just tried Exam 2 as a Green mage. I think Boost Strength may be broken; there was no mana decrease for using it. Also, casting Heal on myself directly after leaving the gas seemed to cancel the spell, automatically killing me, even though I had several turns of the HP boost left. (And remember that healing after being wounded while using Boost Strength is exactly what we were advised to do, to avoid dying when it runs out...)

Edit: Tried again, and this time the Heal still cancelled the Boost Strength, but at least healed enough to let me survive. I'm not sure what I did differently that time, though...

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#277 Post by phoenixgirl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:46 pm

Runespoor wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:46 pm
phoenixgirl wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:09 am
MillaMaxwell wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:36 pm


I found another thing that annoys me about this whole situation. If you study on the weekend following the election, Minnie approaches you with a no-hard-feelings attitude and all of your dialogue options are along the lines of "the best candidate won" or "hey, I said I wanted the voters to decide and they did so I'm fine." That makes sense in a normal election where she never offers you the co-presidency and just beats you fair and square, but it just doesn't seem fitting to be so friendly after she talked trash about you in her speech, which I agree is pretty dirty politics for a student council election. I really wish there was a dialogue option here where you could call her out or at least tell her you don't want to be friendly after how she behaved. If I remember correctly, you've already locked yourself out of Minnie's route by that point anyway because you turned down the co-presidency, so it's not like that would be ruining a potential Minnie path and it would feel quite nice for a frustrated player.
Heh, I hear you. I like your idea as well.

I know this is most unlikely to happen but if we were to have the option to beat Minnie and win the presidency, I totally wouldn't mind being shut off her path. I got to play the rest of her path and yeah, she is nice when she offers to make the MC a snack after they return from selling candles but, in my opinion, it doesn't redeem her enough to make her likable. She continues to take over duties and the MC has a right to feel a bit ticked. Oh and I actually do think the MC would be better as a president on his own. I feel like he wouldn't get in Barbara's face and tick her off. :lol:
Yeah, I think the option to be pissed at Minnie for her speech should you turn down the presidency should exist.

And I say that as someone who disagrees almost entirely with the rest of your comments. :wink:
Heh, that's fine. Maybe I'm in the minority who dislike Minnie as she is. I mean, maybe if the MC came off as more hateable, I might be able to justify Minnie's behavior more. Also, it could be from personal experience having dealt with someone like her in real life. They came off as being super sweet and extra helpful but ultimately had an agenda and had no qualms about bringing down others to do so. So yeah, in real life, now I tend to be vary wary of such people who initially come off being really, really nice. lol
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Re: Lazy Alternative

#278 Post by cheshjabber » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:48 pm

fairfaxleasee wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:07 pm
Hi,

So I just started playing the demo (I know, I've had a while and it's ridiculous that I'm just now doing it), and I was just wondering if you considered changing the "lazy" label to something else ("apathetic" or "aloof" or something like that).
Seconding this!! The connotations of "lazy" being applied to the choices that earn that label is just like... kind of hurtful. ^^;
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#279 Post by hanako » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:17 pm

The relevant choices are generally things like explicitly saying "I don't want to do any work" or "I hate getting up in the morning", and the automatic dialog related to that personality type is usually things like "I would rather sleep". While this could be described as a "Low Energy" personality (which I can't use as a descriptor because that would make it sound like I was talking about mana) it certainly isn't about being aloof.

The "look aloof" choice doesn't have any personality effect at all.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#280 Post by Runespoor » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:22 pm

Would something like "laid-back" be closer to the mark, then?

Eta: I'm on mobile, so replying to Minnie comments is a bit of a pain, but while I don't think MC comes across as hateable, he comes across as a cheat to get the copresidency. He's privileged, authorities cheat on his behalf, and he never evinced interest neither in the presidency nor in making efforts to organize other students, for instance, before Potsdam put him to it. I should hope Minnie does have an agenda - I hope she's not running herself ragged just because she wants to feel useful - but the concept that she needs "redeeming" seems pretty strong. Nothing to do with her playing up her niceness or people who act like her irl.
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#281 Post by hanako » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:24 pm

Yeah, that might work.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#282 Post by cheshjabber » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:34 pm

hanako wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:17 pm
The relevant choices are generally things like explicitly saying "I don't want to do any work" or "I hate getting up in the morning", and the automatic dialog related to that personality type is usually things like "I would rather sleep". While this could be described as a "Low Energy" personality (which I can't use as a descriptor because that would make it sound like I was talking about mana) it certainly isn't about being aloof.

The "look aloof" choice doesn't have any personality effect at all.
I was thinking more about the choices like "I want to rest in my room" (after travelling halfway around the world via the Otherworld that makes a lot of sense given the time difference involved lol), "no one woke me up," (the day after travelling across multiple time zones (i assume? if he's from eastern-ish Europe?)!! I'm honestly surprised there isn't any in-game commentary about jet lag lmao), and opting not to do William's initiation task (which there could be tons of reasons for, and you don't see the emphasis on "too much hassle" until after you make that choice), among others, where I think "introverted" makes more sense from a personality trait standpoint.

Which could also work for the initial conversation with Grabiner about wanting less pressure/an easy ride with some word choice tweaks - given he's a noble/prince trying to hide his identity, being uncomfortable with the amount of social interaction that kind of role would require would make sense as a reason to want to take a break from it while he can! :lol: The explanations he gives if you pick those choices make a lot of rational sense, too, which doesn't make him sound lazy at all, just like your average rebellious teenager. (Though those 2 choices are worded to sound more negative than the others I'm thinking of, lol.)
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#283 Post by hanako » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:47 pm

It's not the day after traveling from Europe, he's been in the US for a week (says so in the beginning) - he was touring with his parents. So no jet lag, just the tiredness of being in a taxi for a while. And the choice about needing to rest on the first day also doesn't have any effect. :) As that choice is largely for meta-reasons (knowing some players will want to get to the class gameplay faster).

Anyway, I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of every choice and what it affects, not at this point.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#284 Post by cheshjabber » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:12 pm

hanako wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:47 pm
It's not the day after traveling from Europe, he's been in the US for a week (says so in the beginning) - he was touring with his parents. So no jet lag, just the tiredness of being in a taxi for a while. And the choice about needing to rest on the first day also doesn't have any effect. :) As that choice is largely for meta-reasons (knowing some players will want to get to the class gameplay faster).

Anyway, I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of every choice and what it affects, not at this point.
Ohhh, gotcha. I'd forgotten the touring with his parents bit! (At this point I tend to auto-skip the opening few scenes lol.) Though I still don't think the "nobody woke me up" choice & not doing William's initiation task should get knocked as "laziness." They're very normal responses for a teenager, especially one in the "get away from it all" kind of mindset! :lol:

Totally understandable, though I've gotta admit I'm super curious about the nitty-grittys lmao! I've done a couple of playthroughs where I tried keep a "balanced" personality to see how long I could avoid any personality tag to see how that would affect narration/dialogue/choices lol. Sorry if I've come off as being too nitpicky!! ^^;
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#285 Post by phoenixgirl » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:08 am

Runespoor wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:22 pm
Would something like "laid-back" be closer to the mark, then?

Eta: I'm on mobile, so replying to Minnie comments is a bit of a pain, but while I don't think MC comes across as hateable, he comes across as a cheat to get the copresidency. He's privileged, authorities cheat on his behalf, and he never evinced interest neither in the presidency nor in making efforts to organize other students, for instance, before Potsdam put him to it. I should hope Minnie does have an agenda - I hope she's not running herself ragged just because she wants to feel useful - but the concept that she needs "redeeming" seems pretty strong. Nothing to do with her playing up her niceness or people who act like her irl.
Woah, maybe it's just me but now it kind of sounds like the MC is hateable. Honestly, I didn't really see him coming off as being snobbish, which is sort of sounding like maybe you're implying that. (Maybe you can tell me if I misinterpreted your words.) In regards to the teachers and such helping him, perhaps if he had said something along the lines like, "I have no shame in using whatever resources to win," then maybe I can see your point. But that isn't how he sounds off to me. I mean, it sounds more like he's just being given an extra advantage because Minnie ALREADY has an advantage over him, having been magic-born and living in America all her life (again, someone can tell me if I'm wrong about Minnie's background) while the MC is the foreigner whom people don't really know about (unless they happened to encounter him in his homeland). So yeah, a case could be made where they're either both cheating or just using certain perks to their advantage.

I think we can agree to disagree on this point. It's just that I've, unfortunately, seen quite a few people like Minnie who come off as nice but they'll trash people (like she did if the MC refuses to agree to the co-presidency idea) and that just irks me. I mean, it's fine to leave Minnie as it is. I'll probably just avoid playing her path, even if she does somewhat change. (As of this post, I never played her path again. Got too annoyed. lol)
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