Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

Male protagonist, in the Hall for bold and athletic boys.
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jak
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#496 Post by jak » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:39 pm

I cast an antimagic field in the lava dungeon and I didn't expect that: https://ibb.co/xG6Mgnh

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#497 Post by manfromba » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:46 am

surreal_chameleon wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:23 pm
As for hidden things:
(Ironically, this is the one subject I don't have to put spoiler blinders on). I think it's fine to put in obscure, long-shot options like that one interaction in the latest dungeon as long as you indicate that this hidden content exists. Achievements are good for doing this, but you also have the options of having <Locked> choices rather than choices that don't display themselves at all unless the player has satisfied all the necessary preconditions.
What is the obscure option?

Hanako, by Barbara scene, do you mean a scene in which Barbara appears, or merely one in which she is mentioned?

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#498 Post by hanako » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:39 am

In this case, scenes related to her route.

I try not to spell out too much when giving the headsup for what scenes are coming, but since people probably have specific saves for specific character routes, it's worth pointing out which ones might have some scene content in the week available.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#499 Post by surreal_chameleon » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:08 pm

What is the obscure option?
I was referring to communicating with the Loveland Frog in the silver chalice dungeon. A Kiss option will appear if you have a pc with the Flirty trait.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#500 Post by hanako » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am

Opinions on the frog dungeon, anyone?

Is it entertaining? Is it too simple? No one's posted in the tips-and-tricks thread, making me wonder if I should add another complication to the whole thing.

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jak
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#501 Post by jak » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:57 pm

hanako wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am
Opinions on the frog dungeon, anyone?

Is it entertaining? Is it too simple? No one's posted in the tips-and-tricks thread, making me wonder if I should add another complication to the whole thing.
I found the competition not really important.

I just need to find the gate and wait for him to use the trigger and then run. You need to be quick then, but with a bit of luck you can outrun the frog without any specific colour. You can use some spell to slow e, but is not mandatory (and ward didn't seem to work, but maybe I did something wrong). Or even easier, teleport self when you face the gate and time won't be a problem (unless you're very unlucky after).

As usual, violence is extremely inefficient way to solve the problem, but that's what Potsdam is trying to teach, so probably it's intended.

I have no idea if it's possible to steal the wand from the frog and how. I guess with enough athletics is possible. If I need a specific spell I haven't found which one. And neither what you could do with it, giving it away to em instead of one your items?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#502 Post by kfc9omg » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:22 am

jak wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:57 pm
hanako wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am
Opinions on the frog dungeon, anyone?

Is it entertaining? Is it too simple? No one's posted in the tips-and-tricks thread, making me wonder if I should add another complication to the whole thing.
I found the competition not really important.

I just need to find the gate and wait for him to use the trigger and then run. You need to be quick then, but with a bit of luck you can outrun the frog without any specific colour. You can use some spell to slow e, but is not mandatory (and ward didn't seem to work, but maybe I did something wrong). Or even easier, teleport self when you face the gate and time won't be a problem (unless you're very unlucky after).

As usual, violence is extremely inefficient way to solve the problem, but that's what Potsdam is trying to teach, so probably it's intended.

I have no idea if it's possible to steal the wand from the frog and how. I guess with enough athletics is possible. If I need a specific spell I haven't found which one. And neither what you could do with it, giving it away to em instead of one your items?

same. if i don't have either of the teleport spells i just hang out by the gate until the frog opens it and run to get the chalice. if i have Teleport Other then i wait until the gate is opened, wait for the frog to come over, then teleport them away. if i have Teleport Self then i just teleport through the gate

to be fair, in the equivalent test in Horse Hall i would just wait by the doors until the other student opened them then use Teleport Other there as well

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jak
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#503 Post by jak » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:20 pm

Random idea to force interactions with the frog-folk/thing/whatever. Presuming that it would be a desired outcome, as other may not agree. Consider it more as a brainstorming thing than anything else. Maybe some idea are somehow usable. Or probably not.

Making the run to the chalice more similar to a capture the flag: after getting the chalice you have to bring it somewhere else in the dungeon. Possibly somewhere not accessible before getting the chalice, otherwise teleport is overpowered again. Waiting for the frog to bully e with red/green would be a strategy, but not the easiest, and , manawise (is it a word? It should be), a costly one. This part of the dungeon could have some small traps/monster/obstacles, so that should think before casting costly spells (hello again teleport). And maybe those traps (or some of them) would only act if you don't have the chalice, so that the soon you get it, the better (maybe that would make trading with the frog more desirable)
Obviously as an idea it's... costly, with quite a lot of work, as it would require a dungeon much longer than the previous. It sounds more like the kickstarter stretch goal that wasn't even achieved. And programming the frog behaviour could be complicated (not sure, as my experience with programming lies in a completely different field). So it would honestly be quite an overkill.

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Hesquidor
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#504 Post by Hesquidor » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:59 pm

The dungeon was fine if perhaps a bit bland. I seem to remember the equivalent Horse Hall challenger being a bit more pro active against the player. Played the exam three times. First with awareness/teleport self. Second with using Long Jump/Slow to beat the frog to the gate and wait till she opened it. Third time I caught up and talked to her and traded a charm for her to stop competing.

Teleport does seem slightly OP, in the fact that to win you do just need one casting of either of the teleport spells. Maybe somekind of anti-magic field in the area around the gate to discourage it slightly - so you would need something like Awareness to find a spot that isn't affected? Or random idea based on the random idea above. Have the PC have to guard the Chalice against the Frog/multiple Frogs for a set number of turns. That would prevent players from just spamming all their best spells and juggle their mana.

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#505 Post by hanako » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:25 pm

The frog does have at least one spell that can be used against the player, but it comes up only in fairly rare circumstances.

I'm thinking of adding a pit somewhere after the gate. The frog will be able to make it passable by creating a bridge, if you wait long enough, but of course that means letting the frog catch up with you again. Teleport is still obviously very useful, but it SHOULD be. :D

I do still sometimes lose the exam myself in testing due to getting overconfident and going down a wrong path in the labyrinth.

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Hesquidor
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#506 Post by Hesquidor » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:56 pm

Does the Frog deliberately go down wrong corridors sometimes? I do seem to remember following the her part way down a corridor and ending up in a dead end. Maybe that's my own overconfidence :D . I have had her cast Entangle at me. I think, or maybe I'm getting muddled up and I cast it at her at one point.

Could the pit possible be multiple tiles long? I can't remember the MP cost of Teleport Self/ Awareness off the top of my head. The pit being longer than the PC's field of view would force the player to wait, or make the MP cost of the exam tighter by forcing the player to cast Awareness again.

Or once you interfere with the Frog attack/unsuccessfully talk/get ahead of the her, she turns herself invisible so it's not quite so easy to know where she is.


I agree Teleport Self is a powerful spell and should be useful. It's just maybe slightly too much of an easy mode option? Teleport Self/Awareness is the most straightforward solution to pretty much every exam so far It'd be pretty funny if maybe Potsdam commented if you used it a lot.
Last edited by Hesquidor on Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#507 Post by hanako » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:14 pm

Not deliberately, but the frog doesn't know the 'right' way to go any more than you do! The AI wanders around looking for the next goal and sometimes may choose the wrong way first.

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Hesquidor
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#508 Post by Hesquidor » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:17 pm

That's pretty cool :D

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#509 Post by Airy_sama » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:02 am

hanako wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am
Opinions on the frog dungeon, anyone?

Is it entertaining? Is it too simple? No one's posted in the tips-and-tricks thread, making me wonder if I should add another complication to the whole thing.
I find it entertaining, but I like the otherworld creatures in general, and being able to get an outcome from talking to them. Also while I'd rather have a plush of the ghost wolf I'd likely buy one of the frog too he's pretty cute for a frog. It is pretty simplistic so some additional hazards could be interesting.

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#510 Post by hanako » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:19 pm

0.6.51 update

* New scenes through to March 2
* Crash deciding what to do when monsters are Afraid fixed.
* Melee attacks no longer try to fire off (and hence no longer crash) when
a monster is no longer in the level. Fixes a crash when you drop the Bladen
Beast down a hole when its next move is to attack.
* No longer show UnitLeave events for units that are behind you.
* Now only show UnitLeave events for niches and the player's current cell in
the console. That way, if you're moving while a monster is moving, you won't
see announcements of it 'leaving' when it's FOLLOWING you. This still
gives some "The Loveland Frog has moved." notices when it's following you
around, but that's not as annoying IMO.
* Foresight output when a monster is planning to flee cleaned up.
* Anti-Magic Fields now properly block casting when the caster's in the same
cell as a field.
* Anti-Magic Fields no longer draw a red chunk on the right side.
* Stray visual glyph in girlkiss ponytail highlight colour cleaned up.
* Exam6 prelude should have proper HP/MP bars.
* Projection for full-screen dungeon display has been adjusted so it looks
right when Barbara walls us into the room. This will affect every
full-screen dungeon background, not just this one.
* Visibility calcs for bigscreen map displayables now use the actual
displayable width instead of cutting off things that start after 1062px.

New scenes include content for all major routes, plus Grabiner, Angela, book club, and the hockey game.

We have NOT currently added new features to the frog dungeon.
We have done some tweaking on the code involved in displaying the dungeon during dialog scenes, so if you get any weird graphical displays please let us know.
I'm currently experiencing some computer issues so I may be a little slowed down.

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