Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

[Runespoor]

Angela's the most interesting prospect for me (...nothing new here...), but I would have liked a Blaise or Taranis sidemance as well! So far Jacob is my second choice.

Angela for me is a WHY?? in the same way Kyo is lol. Like... just too realistically abusive lol.

Ahem. I think I don't... read her as abusive, exactly? Which definitely informs my perspective.

She's involved in a lot of stuff, narratively - she's connected to William, connected to Damien, gets an award for a theory that made Ellen absolutely furious in HH, and knows stuff about Musette. She made a spectacle out of breaking up with Damien, and I find that 1)interesting, 2)hilarious, 3)impressive, 4)something I desperately want to know more about (was it before or after she dated William????? People who want to know whether it wasn't all a stratagem to get in William's good graces want to know!). She's a divergent perspective and she's got lots of opinions, so that's interesting. I mean, in WH she comes across as a bully and a coward (throwing her weight around during Initiation, and when she finds someone who won't take her BS, she's so scared of losing face that she plays the "I like a girl with spirit" card and pretends to be impressed), but she's still fun. With Angela, it's a question of whether she values being unpleasant or being powerful the more, and whether her need to be unpleasant at people won't bite her in the ass. It's pretty impressive that someone with her personality got elected Class President, and I'm also curious on what kind of ambitions she has.

Plus she's got the sort of abrasive personality I find hilarious in fiction, and her backing down by pretending not to care when freshmen refuse to take her bullying could make for a fun/interesting dynamic as a sidemance as well.

Also if we can date two-thirds of the William-Damien-Angela kerfuffle it would be pleasantly symmetrical to be able to get involved with Angela.

But she's not a good person, no.

And I like the idea of Jacob because he's got this interesting parallel/mirror thing with MC, and for a guy who's otherwise pretty unpleasant (will we ever know what exactly he was doing to poor Manuel?), he's got his friendship with Minnie, which looks genuine.

[cheshjabber]

Angela's the most interesting prospect for me (...nothing new here...), but I would have liked a Blaise or Taranis sidemance as well! So far Jacob is my second choice.

Ahem. I think I don't... read her as abusive, exactly? Which definitely informs my perspective.

She's involved in a lot of stuff, narratively - she's connected to William, connected to Damien, gets an award for a theory that made Ellen absolutely furious in HH, and knows stuff about Musette. She made a spectacle out of breaking up with Damien, and I find that 1)interesting, 2)hilarious, 3)impressive, 4)something I desperately want to know more about (was it before or after she dated William????? People who want to know whether it wasn't all a stratagem to get in William's good graces want to know!). She's a divergent perspective and she's got lots of opinions, so that's interesting. I mean, in WH she comes across as a bully and a coward (throwing her weight around during Initiation, and when she finds someone who won't take her BS, she's so scared of losing face that she plays the "I like a girl with spirit" card and pretends to be impressed), but she's still fun. With Angela, it's a question of whether she values being unpleasant or being powerful the more, and whether her need to be unpleasant at people won't bite her in the ass. It's pretty impressive that someone with her personality got elected Class President, and I'm also curious on what kind of ambitions she has.

Plus she's got the sort of abrasive personality I find hilarious in fiction, and her backing down by pretending not to care when freshmen refuse to take her bullying could make for a fun/interesting dynamic as a sidemance as well.

Also if we can date two-thirds of the William-Damien-Angela kerfuffle it would be pleasantly symmetrical to be able to get involved with Angela.

But she's not a good person, no.

I've had a lot of bad experiences in my life with multiple people a lot like Angela (all of whom were abusers), so I just have a really visceral revulsion to the idea of her getting a side route, and honestly just the idea of such a thing with a character like her existing in the game would be enough to put me off the whole Magical Diary series.

But that's extremely subjective on my part lol, and very routed in personal traumas. ^^;

[Savanime]

Angela for me is a WHY?? in the same way Kyo is lol. Like... just too realistically abusive lol.

Ahem. I think I don't... read her as abusive, exactly? Which definitely informs my perspective.

See, I wouldn't really have a problem with Angela being a really insecure mean girl, but she did kinda cross a line with me asking for William's sock (which I assume she was asking for to use in some sort of magic thing to get him back). It just has some unfortunate implications to me, especially since she was willing to throw her weight around and use a freshman to get it. Maybe I misread her intentions though.

[Runespoor]

Angela for me is a WHY?? in the same way Kyo is lol. Like... just too realistically abusive lol.

Ahem. I think I don't... read her as abusive, exactly? Which definitely informs my perspective.

See, I wouldn't really have a problem with Angela being a really insecure mean girl, but she did kinda cross a line with me asking for William's sock (which I assume she was asking for to use in some sort of magic thing to get him back). It just has some unfortunate implications to me, especially since she was willing to throw her weight around and use a freshman to get it. Maybe I misread her intentions though.

I think I'd rather reserve judgment on that, especially since there's a Revenge Club going around asking people things such as "steal your roommate's bra" as initiations tasks, William gets picked on by ~mysterious magical pranks~, and Angela's otherwise not given signs that she wanted William back.

[ParrotWatcher]

Unrelated, but I got this bug when I learned Shockwave:

Code: Select all

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/week15.rpy", line 21, in script call
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 527, in script call
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 2694, in script
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 2694, in <module>
TypeError: trophy_unlock() takes exactly 3 arguments (1 given)

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "game/week15.rpy", line 21, in script call
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 527, in script call
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 2694, in script
  File "C:\Users\tsmra\Documents\VNs\MagicalDiaryWolfHallBeta\renpy\ast.py", line 814, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Users\tsmra\Documents\VNs\MagicalDiaryWolfHallBeta\renpy\python.py", line 1695, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/classes.rpy", line 2694, in <module>
TypeError: trophy_unlock() takes exactly 3 arguments (1 given)

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 6.99.12.2.2029+SPIKY
 

[dmboogie]

aww, blaise is my favorite of those options but i get why e wouldn't fit well here.

honestly i would extremely vote for Balthasar, partially because he's such a blank slate. i wanna know what's going on in the head of the weird mushroom running joke guy. does he like long walks in the forest? does he like getting hopelessly lost in forests and having to identify and eat plants to survive? is he thorough enough about his botany to be "science" aligned like Ellen? what sorta wack shit can you do with plant magic anyways?

[cheshjabber]

aww, blaise is my favorite of those options but i get why e wouldn't fit well here.

honestly i would extremely vote for Balthasar, partially because he's such a blank slate. i wanna know what's going on in the head of the weird mushroom running joke guy. does he like long walks in the forest? does he like getting hopelessly lost in forests and having to identify and eat plants to survive? is he thorough enough about his botany to be "science" aligned like Ellen? what sorta wack shit can you do with plant magic anyways?

SAME TBH!!

[CrimsonRose]

I also like Balthasar as a side romance to explore him more, especially if adding in some lore about botany like magic. It could also be a way to learn a bit more about Toad Hall.

[spicyunicorntears]

I completed my first playthrough with a scheming, BROKE, “lazy”, sporty, co-President MC last night. I enjoyed experiencing these familiar (and some new) characters from a male POV.

A few highlights: Ellen never quite warmed up to my Horse Hall character--our relationship was always one step forward, eight steps back. Surprisingly, she’s actually smiled at my male MC a few times. I love that as his hall mate you witness some of William’s vulnerability, which I feel you didn’t see as his sister’s friend. Overall, the characters are complex, and I care about all of them—even if everyone isn't a favorite ( I agree with Runespoor that Minnie has an agenda, though I'm not sure what it is). I'm not sure who to pursue yet, because my MO has always been to flirt with everyone until I’m forced to choose or desist! Before playing the demo, I was certain one playthrough would be devoted to Damien and another to William—then I met Barbara, saw Luke with different eyes and met Raven (her cape is the best!). I wish Blaise was an option.

I was also stuck on Exam 3. I found the false wall, but I couldn’t activate the runes. I thought I was focusing on red (five) and white (four) spells but had at least two spells in the other colors. Maybe I was too general after all.

To answer Hanako's earlier questions: I love Professor Van Brun’s design. I’m a big fan of her claws, her eyes are lovely, and I wish I had her abs. The inclusion of an “otherworldly” teacher is inspired. Any plans for a wildseed teacher? I took credit for the pie. Damien's confusion was priceless.

Excited to see what comes next.

[Saralene]

I've had a lot of bad experiences in my life with multiple people a lot like Angela (all of whom were abusers), so I just have a really visceral revulsion to the idea of her getting a side route, and honestly just the idea of such a thing with a character like her existing in the game would be enough to put me off the whole Magical Diary series.

But that's extremely subjective on my part lol, and very routed in personal traumas. ^^;

Personally, this is exactly why I like the romances with abusive characters, when they are done well and accurately. Knowing that things I've personally gone through that were hard on me are represented means that other people can learn the signs and understand for themselves why these relationships are potentially problematic, especially if they're still given full agency to go through with it. In a sense, seeing accurate representation of abusive and/or manipulative relationships doesn't always romanticize them, so much as letting people make judgments for themselves. While some people will find romance in such danger, many never realized there was danger at all, and don't realize they can't always fix other people. Good representation of abuse, given with player agency rather than forceful moral commentary (and most games would go the latter route, but Magical Diary doesn't), can really help less people turn out like us. It's a bit like experiencing that abuse, but in a safe environment where one is less blinded, and thus more able to see it for what it is.

That said, I can't say whether Angela really crosses the line of being a full-on abuser or not, but I'd be interested in finding out, such as it is.

[Tomo-chan]

I'm not hugely partial to anybody in the line-up. I would like a route for Logan, Jacob, and Angela, but I would rather have a main route in another game.
I agree that it would be fun for Jacob, who is a bit full of himself, to realize the true identity of the main character, but unless there is a public unmasking, I doubt side routes will find out.
A friendship route with Kyo AS PART of a main romantic route with Minnie would be something I'd enjoy, but I don't know if that's possible with his personality. But if he can manage to realize he is an awful creep, that would be an interesting route.

This makes me wonder if characters have fixed romantic/sexual orientations. I've never seen you say "this character is not romanceable because they don't like boys/girls", but maybe that's part of what you mean by "better suited for a ButterflyPC/WolfPC/etc".

[hanako]

I've never seen you say "this character is not romanceable because they don't like boys/girls", but maybe that's part of what you mean by "better suited for a ButterflyPC/WolfPC/etc".

That's not why, but I can't explain either

[CrimsonRose]

I just had this thought but actually Balthasar could be a good side route on top of being interesting as a blank slate, because of his obsession with plants works perfectly with WolfPC's affinity to nature. after the argument with Grabby WolfPC seems to manipulate the environment with his own type of magic that doesn't seem to be related to the pentachromatic system. In this he seems to be feeling the energy/souls/life force of everything around him. This could lend well to forming a bond between each other and maybe Balthasar would help WolfPC accept his position as future King of The Woods . And like they can teach each other differences between European plants/magic and American plants/magic.

[cheshjabber]

Personally, this is exactly why I like the romances with abusive characters, when they are done well and accurately. Knowing that things I've personally gone through that were hard on me are represented means that other people can learn the signs and understand for themselves why these relationships are potentially problematic, especially if they're still given full agency to go through with it. In a sense, seeing accurate representation of abusive and/or manipulative relationships doesn't always romanticize them, so much as letting people make judgments for themselves. While some people will find romance in such danger, many never realized there was danger at all, and don't realize they can't always fix other people. Good representation of abuse, given with player agency rather than forceful moral commentary (and most games would go the latter route, but Magical Diary doesn't), can really help less people turn out like us. It's a bit like experiencing that abuse, but in a safe environment where one is less blinded, and thus more able to see it for what it is.

That said, I can't say whether Angela really crosses the line of being a full-on abuser or not, but I'd be interested in finding out, such as it is.

Philosophically speaking, I totally agree! Rereading some of my earlier posts, I don't think I communicated my perspective as well as I could have, and I think my phrasing was more hostile than I'd like. To clarify, Angela just hits too many painful buttons for me personally to be comfortable with a side route existing for her, and I personally would not enjoy having that kind of representation in Magical Diary specifically, because that's not the experience that I'm looking for from them. But those are just my personal feelings with this particular game. I didn't mean to imply anything broader or more general than that, but my original phrasing was too vague and easy to misconstrue. I apologize for that!

For me it's blatantly obvious that Angela is an abusive person, but maybe we're reading her behavior differently. ^^;

[Runespoor]

Personally, this is exactly why I like the romances with abusive characters, when they are done well and accurately. Knowing that things I've personally gone through that were hard on me are represented means that other people can learn the signs and understand for themselves why these relationships are potentially problematic, especially if they're still given full agency to go through with it. In a sense, seeing accurate representation of abusive and/or manipulative relationships doesn't always romanticize them, so much as letting people make judgments for themselves. While some people will find romance in such danger, many never realized there was danger at all, and don't realize they can't always fix other people. Good representation of abuse, given with player agency rather than forceful moral commentary (and most games would go the latter route, but Magical Diary doesn't), can really help less people turn out like us. It's a bit like experiencing that abuse, but in a safe environment where one is less blinded, and thus more able to see it for what it is.

That said, I can't say whether Angela really crosses the line of being a full-on abuser or not, but I'd be interested in finding out, such as it is.

Philosophically speaking, I totally agree! Rereading some of my earlier posts, I don't think I communicated my perspective as well as I could have, and I think my phrasing was more hostile than I'd like. To clarify, Angela just hits too many painful buttons for me personally to be comfortable with a side route existing for her, and I personally would not enjoy having that kind of representation in Magical Diary specifically, because that's not the experience that I'm looking for from them. But those are just my personal feelings with this particular game. I didn't mean to imply anything broader or more general than that, but my original phrasing was too vague and easy to misconstrue. I apologize for that!

For me it's blatantly obvious that Angela is an abusive person, but maybe we're reading her behavior differently. ^^;

From what we see of Angela, we already know that she's abusive in non-romantic relationships (hello, Initiation week and bullying!), and her little scene with William ("after the way you treated me") raises red flags, yeah.

But I already romance Damien, he of the master class in abuse and predatory behavior... It's something I do enjoy in games, when it's done well, and abusive behavior isn't whitewashed, but I - through the MC - can get to safely choose how to fight back, engage, and be affected or not. It's not necessarily safe for the MC, but I like RPing characters who are disasters, and I also like the power fantasy aspect of being able to "beat" the abuser at their own game. Something that's not exactly doable IRL.