Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

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Spiky Caterpillar
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#211 Post by Spiky Caterpillar » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:54 pm

AquaphobicSquid wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:48 am
hanako wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:55 pm
I believe the save glitch has to do with the change to move-reporting, which makes it much more likely in the practice dungeons where the Training Dummy may be moving around. We're working on it.
What I've tried seems to be consistent with this. Every time I kill all the dummies with something like Blast/Sicken or have them jump in pits, I don't get the error. Anytime I try disabling them without killing such as with Entangle or put them in Darkness so they won't move around, it still gets the error. Hopefully the answer is a simple "KillAllCreatures" in the dungeon when leaving, but knowing coding it won't be. Good luck! ...the spirit from the first exam also triggers this issue unless it's killed or "used", but weirdly the training dummy from the first dungeon doesn't always cause it. Or at least it didn't when I left immediately. Perhaps it has to see you to start its obnoxiousness?
Yep. This is caused by the deduping code as far as I can tell - monster movement gets announced up to three times (leaving a cell, entering a cell, being in a different place than the player remembered it being last turn.). Fine for monsters or traps, not so fine when the PC can see both cells and gets told "The Training Dummy leaves to the west. The Training Dummy has arrived." So I'm storing some extra information with the movement reports that can be used to dedupe and prioritize them, but the extra info includes non-savable datatypes.

This MIGHT be fixed in the next version (0.5.32), but then I've thought it was fixed a few times before so....

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#212 Post by MillaMaxwell » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:18 am

cheshjabber wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:21 pm
Which reminds me, I don't know if this is intentional/part of the story arc, but Minnie's behavior towards a co-president MC comes off as super manipulative? Like she suggests the co-presidenting thing in order to disappoint fewer people so she looks better by comparison (either by everyone getting the president(s) they want or being able to make the MC look bad during the speeches), passive aggressively implying that he's all style and no substance in the process, and then acts like she's the sole president and treats the MC like her assistant/secretary. I get that she's passionate about improving things for her classmates & is a perfectionist who feels the need to do everything herself, but the way her dissing/ignoring the MC feels too deliberate to take as anything more than malicious. I loved her in Horse Hall and was looking forward to her having a route in this game, but her route thus far is honestly just not fun at all for me. Which I know is super subjective and not going to be everyone's experience with this character archetype, but the way the MC is treated in her route is just really upsetting for me. ^^;;
OMG this has been bugging me too. I feel like it's intentional though because there was at least one scene in Horse Hall where she was shown to be potentially manipulative, when she "accidentally" told everyone Grabiner was married at a time when she wanted to deflect attention from her own relationship, but it wasn't really ever confirmed. If it turns out this isn't how she's supposed to come across and I'm actually supposed to thing she's super nice and perfect, then it's not working for me, but I'm hoping that's not the case. (I was actually pretty irked by the co-presidents thing in general because that actually happened with one student government position at my high school and it didn't turn out well for the person in Gary Stu's position.) When Minnie gave her super mean and manipulative speech after Gary Stu said he'd rather let the voters decide, I definitely did not like her anymore.

As for Damien, I didn't realize the Dark Dance was a breakup option at first, but when I went back and tried that, I liked his comment at Thanksgiving and am eager to see what the late game looks like with a vengeful Damien around...

I really like Professor Van Brun! I think I got all or most of her scenes by just going to the gym every day after the first week. Her design looks great and I'm eager to see more scenes with her. I feel like personality-wise, she's like the sort of person Potsdam pretends to be -- cheerful, friendly, and eager for students to do their own thing and learn without much structure. The contrast between the two is quite nice and it really makes me wish Van Brun got more lines during the dueling scene.

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Beckett
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#213 Post by Beckett » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:20 am

Hi, first I just want to say that I've loved what I've played of the game so far, especially getting to know some of the background characters from the first game (I really wish I'd had enough money to fund Luke's route; so glad someone else picked it up). Thanks for letting us play test the game.

I tried to do some searching through the threads before I posted some of the things I found while playing, but if I repeat something someone already brought up, I apologize.

In the introduction to Professor Grabiner, Gary Stu comments that Grabiner is “originally British, he still holds an accent…” I might just be reading it with the wrong emphasis, but it just sounds a little strange, like something happened and now he's Italian or Russian, instead of that he just doesn't choose to reside there anymore. So maybe "originally from Britain, he still holds..." instead?

Right before entering his dorm room for the first time, Grabiner tells Gary Stu that his parents "sent belongings ahead." Then, in the next line, Gary says "I walk ahead." Maybe change one of the aheads to something else?

I was taking the third exam, and I had the spell window open (with the list of all the spells I'd learned) and I accidentally hit the "give up" option. I was pretty much out of options for solving it, so I confirmed that I gave up, but when it returned me to the detention hall the spell window and the spell menu remained on the screen, and they stayed there, on top of the dialogue and background, until I cancelled out of them. Should there be an auto-close feature for it if you leave the dungeon for any reason, or should it be impossible to choose an option from the left-hand menu if the spell book is open?

When Damian requests a Saturday date after the Dark Dance, I think Saturday and enrollment are misspelled.

Those are the only places that really seemed like bugs or fixes, but I do have a couple of "wish-list items" and plot questions after playing. I'll put them in spoiler text, just in case:

When you get the gift from William after initiation, it would be nice if it would show up in your inventory as a wearable item.

When you examine yourself in the dungeon, is your response supposed to change depending on the personality traits you've acquired?

After Thanksgiving, I wish you had the option to go Black Friday shopping at the mall (or if you do, I never triggered it). Maybe that could be a secret option to reward players that haven't spent any of their allowance up to that point? Of course, the items at the mall should be discounted a bit (it is Black Friday!)

One thing I always wondered in Horse Hall was what year Donald was in; some places in the text referred to him as a freshman, but some of the conversations made it sound like he was well-acquainted with Grabiner and Potsdam, and he had lots of knowledge about school policies and practices that seemed like experience speaking. It's been awhile since I played it, so I can't recall if any of the later updates addressed that or not. It's made clear in Wolf Hall that he's a freshman like Virginia, but the mystery is kind of the same: if he's older than his sister, why are they in the same year? Was there a specific reason why he waited? Or is he being forced to repeat the freshman year for some reason? And if he's a brand-new freshman, did he get his knowledge from William, or through other means? It would be great if there was some kind of conversation in this game, or even a throwaway line, that kind of pointed out why Donald seems so much more experienced in Iris Academy-related subjects despite this being his first year.


Thanks again for making Wolf Hall!
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#214 Post by hanako » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:21 am

Donald is less than a year older than Virginia. His birthday is in October. Hers is in the summer and she was born premature. They are legitimately in the same 'grade'.

(Unfortunately the only descriptive terms I know for siblings born less than a year apart are rather rude, which is why I'm not using them. As WolfPC is not Virginia's roommate, he's not likely to get the information from William about Virginia being a preemie, he doesn't really have any reason to know or care.)

'enrolment' is the british spelling. my spelling is routinely a mix of both. this is a point of stubbornness dating back to grade school when I flatly refused to spell cauldron without the u even though I knew I would be marked down for it. :lol: But good catch on the Saturday typo!

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#215 Post by Tomo-chan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:17 am

I played before the addition of the Gym Teacher but forgot to come here to share my thoughts, so here they are :

Possible bug : at one point, my character says "So that's what happened with Grabiner's shoes !" but I hadn't had any scene about that. I don't remember if I had taken a Grabiner's class that week. Possibly not a bug since that could very well have happened off-screen but I did spend a few seconds trying to remember.

Some stuff I didn't like : as a non-American (with english as a second language) some of the scenes about the MC ignorance due to being foreign really weirded me out. The one that jumps to my mind is "They can transform coal into diamonds in America ??" Admittedly, I'm not from Illyria, but I'm pretty sure people in actual Eastern Europe know about coal and diamonds. If the ignorance comes from the fact that the MC had a fully magical education, I wish it was framed that way instead of America vs Europe.
One other thing was his ignorance of Christopher Columbus. Everybody knows who that is, even if he is less important than in America. And it's a non-scientific fact, so I see no reason it wouldn't be taught as part of a magical education.
I'm also a bit surprised by how Blaise says it's easier to sing sitting down, while I was always taught to never sit while singing since posture is crucial.
I do think the first dungeon is too hard for a first dungeon : I reloaded a bunch of time to get it right. The first few times, I didn't manage to follow the Spark to the room with the fake floor, and when I got there it had already gone in the floor. It would be easier if it waited around for you. Overall I think the dungeons are hard but fun.

Now onto positive stuff and general thoughts : I love the game. It feels so good playing one of your games and feeling like you thought about every little detail of the experience. So many things are happening, events affecting other events and relationships, it does feel like actual school life.
I like Minnie's "Okay, bye !" She really seems like a great person. I do feel a bit left out in the student council. I wonder if it would be better with Manuel as treasurer, as he seems less reliable than Jacob ?
I love all of Luke's interactions. With how many scenes there are with him, it feels like his route is already partially into the game. I'm really intrigued by the mystery of his magic, and how it might relate to the fact he and his twin brother are both wildseeds.
I was somewhat going for William and was crushed when I got "Low William Approval" when he went to me about Ellen. One thing I want to help him with is mending his relationship with Donald, I hope that happens.
Like many others, I didn't get that the Dark Dance was a breakup option for Damien, though it's clever that it goes "Take his hand/Refuse" like in HH.
Also, someone commented that the flirting personality skews heterosexual, but I didn't have that experience, I think I had several flirty interactions with William, Luke (and obviously Damien). It does kinda make the character bi to have the flirting personality.
Blue charm seems to work as intended (you asked about this earlier).

Does anyone know if I have to complete a full game of HH for the wand, or is just having a save file okay ?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#216 Post by hanako » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:25 am

Tomo-chan wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:17 am
Does anyone know if I have to complete a full game of HH for the wand, or is just having a save file okay ?
IIRC it's actually checking whether there are any images saved in the Horse Hall gallery, which only happens if you kiss someone, get married, or go to the Ball together. So if you're starting from scratch you'd have to play most of the game to qualify, but if you get someone else's save file right before those parts, you'd only have to play enough to unlock one of those image scenes.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#217 Post by Runespoor » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:53 am

As a European, I liked that MC's ignorance is framed in terms of America/Europe re:diamonds, it sells pretty well the fact that MC is pretty out of touch with non-magical society. And MC is 16, I think lors of 16-yr-old don't know scientists can make diamonds like that, and would be impressed to know.
IA that the Columbus thing isn't representative of reality, but it's a wildseed American teen making assumptions about Europe, so I didn't mind it that much. Maybe magical Latvia really doesn't care enough about Columbus for MC to remember everything Ellen says; probably MC had some idea who was Columbus, but didn't know America had a "Columbus day" and didn't want to interrupt Ellen's explanation (primary school definitely didn't care enough about Columbus for teenaged me to remember being taught he was looking for Japan and engaged in slavery).

On another note, I love how Minnie's written! She's definitely sidelining MC, but I'm not clear on how much of that is deliberate - I think she doesn't trust him to have her agenda at heart, and obviously MC is untrustworthy to the extreme, from her perspective. He's pulled some underhanded tricks, he gets preferential treatment, teachers cheat in his behalf, and he didn't pull an ounce of work to become president, whereas not only do Minnie genuinely work herself to the bone for the role, but she has an AGENDA that didn't seem to benefit only her, from the best I can see. If I were her I'd be super pissed too. For her, the main thing seems to be her agenda, and she has no reasin to trust MC not to stand against it, even passively. Best to put him to do nothing - after all, he didn't do anything before the start if the campaign, so reaping the benefits and leaving her the work should work for him, right? He's probably not even thought this through, he's only here for a year, it won't mean anything to him back in Europe. For Minnie, this might well be the start of her career. And there's also the fact that Minnie may well have figured out MC's identity - the gist of it if not the particulars. No wonder she's doing her level best to work AROUND him.

I find Minnie's blatant sidelining of MC super interesting because co-prez MC pulled similar tricks to how Jacob becomes treasurer, so what does that say about the relationship between Minnie and Jacob? I honestly thought in HH that they were friends. Is there more to it, does Minnie not trust him, or did Jacob actually do things that make Minnie trust him?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#218 Post by ParrotWatcher » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:29 pm

Tomo-chan wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:17 am
Also, someone commented that the flirting personality skews heterosexual, but I didn't have that experience, I think I had several flirty interactions with William, Luke (and obviously Damien). It does kinda make the character bi to have the flirting personality.
As the person who originally noted this, I can say that the game has been updated, and I have found automatic flirtations with both Luke and the stalker guy (Kyo?). As you said, he's pretty bisexual now (so he still can't be played as exclusively gay), but that's better than being assumed to act straight until you're literally dating another guy...
Runespoor wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:53 am
IA that the Columbus thing isn't representative of reality, but it's a wildseed American teen making assumptions about Europe, so I didn't mind it that much. Maybe magical Latvia really doesn't care enough about Columbus for MC to remember everything Ellen says; probably MC had some idea who was Columbus, but didn't know America had a "Columbus day" and didn't want to interrupt Ellen's explanation (primary school definitely didn't care enough about Columbus for teenaged me to remember being taught he was looking for Japan and engaged in slavery).
Potentially the Illyrians see Lief Erikson as the true European discoverer of the Americas... :P
Runespoor wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:53 am
On another note, I love how Minnie's written! She's definitely sidelining MC, but I'm not clear on how much of that is deliberate - I think she doesn't trust him to have her agenda at heart, and obviously MC is untrustworthy to the extreme, from her perspective. He's pulled some underhanded tricks, he gets preferential treatment, teachers cheat in his behalf, and he didn't pull an ounce of work to become president, whereas not only do Minnie genuinely work herself to the bone for the role, but she has an AGENDA that didn't seem to benefit only her, from the best I can see. If I were her I'd be super pissed too. For her, the main thing seems to be her agenda, and she has no reasin to trust MC not to stand against it, even passively. Best to put him to do nothing - after all, he didn't do anything before the start if the campaign, so reaping the benefits and leaving her the work should work for him, right? He's probably not even thought this through, he's only here for a year, it won't mean anything to him back in Europe. For Minnie, this might well be the start of her career. And there's also the fact that Minnie may well have figured out MC's identity - the gist of it if not the particulars. No wonder she's doing her level best to work AROUND him.
I think it would be nice to see a presidential MC actually doing something proactive. At the moment, he's coming across as pretty lazy, and only does whatever Minnie tells him to, when she tells him to, and never really goes out of his way to find out what other things he should or could be doing. And this needn't be an MC vs Minnie thing, he could be doing things that she'd approve of, or at least see as in-line with her own adgendas.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#219 Post by Tomo-chan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:32 pm

The way it is at this point in the game, it definitely looks like Minnie proposed that co-president deal to get our share of the votes, but has no intention of actually sharing leadership. But I don't know whether I can blame her for that, because the MC is not showing any sign of actually knowing how or wanting to propose ideas, organize stuff, being a link between the students and the teachers or anything. So it's in great part our fault. But I still think that if Minnie had any intention of following through her co-president idea, she would at least meet with us privately to discuss her ideas and what MC can bring to the table.
She clearly can't keep up her work rhythm throughout the year while maintaining her health (how she did it in HH I have no idea), so it would be in her best interest to delegate some things to us. I wonder if she doesn't trust us, or if she is such a perfectionist that she wants to do everything herself ?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#220 Post by Runespoor » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:58 pm

With regards to flirting, I'd just like to throw in that flirting isn't necessarily indicative of sexual orientation, or attraction to the person you're flirting with, either. Especially for someone who's "flirty". Personally, I like to flirt because it's fun, but it's not reflective of "people I'd like to kiss". So MC just comes across as someone who likes to flirt and tease.

I suspect MC will be more proactive in the rest of the Minnie romance. (Maybe in HH her relationship with Kyo got in the way of her precidency enough that she couldn't do as much, or maybe she and Jacob worked out an arrangement around Christmas.) MC going to Minnie to ask how to help would be a way; MC asking teachers or older students about future festivals and the way they're traditionally organized, so he can meet Minnie with ideas, would be good too. And that's without going into the actual politics of the wildseed situation (and Musette and Damien, for instance...)

I also think it's a little if column A, a little of column B, with Minnie. She knows she can trust herself, she knows she's competent, and MC isn't... super impressive or trustworthy? So it's better if she just does things herself.

I do hope MC gets off his ass and is more proactive later on, though.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#221 Post by hanako » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:03 pm

THIS IS NOT A VOTE PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO VOTE THIS IS DISCUSSION

Okay, so. Soon, I will start gathering data on who will be getting the free Side Romance slots. The actual voting will likely take place through a Kickstarter backer survey (prevents vote-stuffing), though people who can't vote will still be able to comment here and on the KS updates to try and convince people why their favorite should be supported.
(Reminder, side romances are SIDE romances, not full routes. Deep mysteries will remain mysterious until/unless there is ever a full route for that character to explore them.)

Preliminary list!

Characters who will definitely be up for the vote:

Logan (WolfPC knows him and has some connections to him)
Jacob (Might be tied to the Student Council plot)
Angela (Might be connected to William's plot)
Corrinna (Connected to the Poetry Club)
Big Steve (Likely connected to Sports Club)

Characters who will definitely NOT be up for the vote:

All adults, including Professor Van Brun (not doing teacher/student this game)
Donald and Virginia (they've been done, and I don't have any new ideas for them)
Taranis (This character needs to be handled in a main route only)
Blaise (Not well suited to a side route with WolfPC. More likely for a ButterflyPC.)
Cameo characters (This would likely be awkward for their creators)

You'd have to convince me:

Kyo (Other than hoping to knock some sense into him, WHY?)
Balthasar (Honestly I don't even know what he looks like under there)
Laurel (She hasn't even appeared in the game!)

Am I missing any characters from these categories?

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#222 Post by cheshjabber » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:50 pm

hanako wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:03 pm
...
Characters who will definitely NOT be up for the vote:

...
Taranis (This character needs to be handled in a main route only)
Blaise (Not well suited to a side route with WolfPC. More likely for a ButterflyPC.)
...
Well there goes my biggest hopes right off the bat! :lol: And way to uber-pique my interest in & curiousity about Taranis as salt in the wound!! :P Would it be potentially possible for a side friendship route with Blaise instead of a romance? She has such a great design and I'm so excited to see a nb character, I really want to get more content with her!!

Logan could potentially be interesting. I'd really like to learn more about the twins in general; Luke is the more likable twin right now, but honestly that's just because we know him better.

Angela for me is a WHY?? in the same way Kyo is lol. Like... just too realistically abusive lol. :cry:

Corrina and Jacob wouldn't be exciting or interesting for me personally, but I also wouldn't mind if either of them ended up with a side romance. Corrina's cute and I wouldn't mind learning more about Jacob.

As for Big Steve, while he's great and I love him, since I'm assuming his "romance" route in HH is basically about what we can expect in terms of additional content for side romances in Wolf Hall, I don't know if another side romance with him would feel like it was worth the time. I'd love it if he had a full romance route though!! (Maybe for hypothetical future ButterflyPC? :wink: )

Balthasar is honestly more appealing of a choice for me than Jacob or Angela tbh. I could definitely see a side romance along the same lines as Big Steve's Horse Hall route with him being really entertaining!! :lol:

Aaaand I have not been in the HG community long enough(/paid close enough attention to name drops in WH?) to know who Laurel is. ^^;
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#223 Post by Savanime » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:01 pm

hanako wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:03 pm

Characters who will definitely be up for the vote:

Logan (WolfPC knows him and has some connections to him)
Jacob (Might be tied to the Student Council plot)
Angela (Might be connected to William's plot)
Corrinna (Connected to the Poetry Club)
Big Steve (Likely connected to Sports Club)

Characters who will definitely NOT be up for the vote:

All adults, including Professor Van Brun (not doing teacher/student this game)
Donald and Virginia (they've been done, and I don't have any new ideas for them)
Taranis (This character needs to be handled in a main route only)
Blaise (Not well suited to a side route with WolfPC. More likely for a ButterflyPC.)
Cameo characters (This would likely be awkward for their creators)

You'd have to convince me:

Kyo (Other than hoping to knock some sense into him, WHY?)
Balthasar (Honestly I don't even know what he looks like under there)
Laurel (She hasn't even appeared in the game!)

Am I missing any characters from these categories?
Was Pastel supposed to be included?

As for my personal opinions, I feel like Jacob is my favorite. I like the idea of him being a bit big-headed about his wealth and then being shocked when you (or his fathers) reveal who you really are. I also think it would be great because Kyo is constantly thinking either PC or Jacob is dating Minnie, but whoops they're dating each other. Maybe it could also be a way to get more agency in the student council (if you get in with Jacob, maybe he'll keep you're allowance thing a secret and keep you up to date on decisions). I also think Balthasar could be a fun route if it goes in the direction of the PC being really curious about what's under the hood. "What is under that hood? Is he human, or some plant-like Otherworlder? It would be too awkward to just ask, maybe I should keep finding reasons to hang around him and see if he ever takes that thing off....." Oh, and I agree that both Angela and Kyo skeeve me out because they both seem to have waaay too many obsessive issues.

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hanako
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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#224 Post by hanako » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:05 pm

Pastel is already confirmed, she was backed by a private sponsor during the kickstarter.

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Re: Wolf Hall - Development Testing Thread

#225 Post by ParrotWatcher » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:09 pm

hanako wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:03 pm
Kyo (Other than hoping to knock some sense into him, WHY?)
Part of me wants this simply because of how he reacted to my flirting, but the rest of me just wants to introduce him to some high-end Red magic... :lol:
cheshjabber wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:50 pm
Balthasar is honestly more appealing of a choice for me than Jacob or Angela tbh. I could definitely see a side romance along the same lines as Big Steve's Horse Hall route with him being really entertaining!!
Agreed; he seems more "interestingly weird", while Jacob just seems like a snob. (And Angela is just unpleasant...)

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