Sequel Talk - Magical Diary Wolf Hall

Male protagonist, in the Hall for bold and athletic boys.
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yuri999
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#166 Post by yuri999 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:35 am

Oh my, who knew asking such a simple question would have allowed for such insightful posts from you two. Great read, thanks guys... er, girls. :D

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Oki
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#167 Post by Oki » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:45 am

yuri999 wrote:Oh my, who knew asking such a simple question would have allowed for such insightful posts from you two. Great read, thanks guys... er, girls. :D
:oops: I am just a lowly Hanako fan. Thank you though!
I've been here so long even Hanako is sick of me

dannyboy6699
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#168 Post by dannyboy6699 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:17 pm

Bought Magical Diary off steam a few months ago on dare. i am not secretly addicted to almost all Hanako games <3 fanboy and proud yay! cant wait for wolf hall!!!

perles75
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#169 Post by perles75 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:41 pm

Sorry to rub on a sensitive point (but this won't be a "do a second year" kind of post!) but I was a tiny bit curious about the reason on why it will be difficult to see a continuation of the Magical diary story... is it a technical problem (it is complicated to create a story that considers all the many endings and choices made for year 1, not to mention the coding difficulties for that)? or a creative one? or is it connected to the artist issues you were describing?

I hope you will manage to overcome the frustrations and continue doing games, with your own time pace, and enjoying it! :)
cheers
hanako wrote:(This isn't aimed at you specifically so please don't feel bad, but:)

While I know there are many people who would like to see a continuation of their Horse Hall characters, it is not possible at this point in time, and every time people ask about it, it makes me feel more and more like giving up on the setting entirely. :) It doesn't help that Wolf Hall has been perpetually delayed due to artist problems and I'm now going to have to start over from scratch in order to make it at all...

Like I said, this isn't aimed at you, I just keep seeing these posts over and over on this forum and others, or sometimes people yelling at me and claiming that I "obviously" intended to write all four years and am somehow cheating them by having released the game that I wrote... sigh.

Anyway, I'm just posting this here in the hopes of discouraging anyone else from following up with a "yeah that would be great". Please don't. :)

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hanako
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#170 Post by hanako » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:16 pm

Some of the storylines obviously cannot continue into the same game genre at all (like, say, the 'walking in darkness' ending). And what about characters who ended the year in Snake Hall? A second year written in the same style as this game would mean having to write an entirely separate game JUST for those characters. That's not practical.

The underlying design wasn't planned for multiple years and a lot of the handwaving that uses "you're freshmen, you'll get this later" would expire. There's a huge amount of overhead that would go into trying to meaningfully create later years and fill in the structure. The whole playstyle would have to change. Take magical history, for example. I've made it clear in the backstory that your students would be taught that in second year. But how is that going to work from a stat-raising sim perspective? A stat in Magical History is not exactly going to be directly relevant to dungeon tests in the style of the first game... And so on.

The main characters themselves don't have story arcs currently existing for the scope of later years... would probably be necessary to bring in more external events to react to instead of so much focus on people's backstories which have already been resolved. And then there's all the side characters who appear in Horse Hall giving small hints about what their intended plotlines in their own games are meant to be... but as those other games haven't been written, carrying that sort of interaction on into later years and trying to keep continuity with stories that haven't been fully written yet gets difficult.

So, summing up - huge changes necessary to the entire underlying concept in order to produce a sequel which by necessity would be far more expensive to make AND appeal to a much smaller userbase than the first game, since without having written the other freshman halls yet it would only be possible to import horse characters.

It's not practical to consider a later-years story until we close the book on other freshman halls, and it would be dumb to do that without at least having written one male hall.

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Oki
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#171 Post by Oki » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:00 pm

And let me bring up another aspect as someone who codes.

Do you know how hard it would be from a practical standpoint to code a game that would refer to every action that differs? Just, let me give you an example.

First part of the game, introduction, I'm sure you want to know what your character was doing all summer. So already Hanako has to code in a sequence and have python recognize,

Did you stay at school due to test failures?
Did you go to the dance with Donald as a friend (don't forget, the flavor text would be different if you were in a relationship with him)
Did you reunite with Damien and keep a secret relationship with him?
Did you reunite with Damien only to avoid him because you made the promise prematurely?
Who did you date? Who did you end up with? How were your grades? Were you treasurer? Did you help Minnie out with Kyo? The games code would START out with a complicated code that's difficult on it's own solely to introduce a character beginning. Afterall, the appeal of a second game is a continuation.

Worse yet. . . A lot of people mostly just want to see romances continue. I mean, I'd love to have Hanako just say "Yes in some other worldly dimension there is a way Damien will be obsessed with you for all eternity and your crazed love will keep burning into the night just like Oki's stalking of me. . . " but isn't half the fun making it up yourself? So little return, so so so so so much work. I'm sobbing thinking of the python codes right now.

Oh God, all of the python codes. . . all the python codes. . .
I've been here so long even Hanako is sick of me

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hanako
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#172 Post by hanako » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:31 pm

I don't personally mind the code part as much as the content - I mean, look at LLTQ, I am clearly addicted to insane overly-complicated conditionals.

... of course, LLTQ still isn't 100% bug-free in carrying out all those conditionals either, as the recent discussion about certain epilogues revealed. Which may suggest that my poor code partners and testers may not be able to handle all those conditions!

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Oki
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#173 Post by Oki » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:49 pm

Well, the problem with testing them in LLTQ is that once you find a way to succeed I find it's easy to get trapped in the same storyline in order to survive. In a VN, you have more options available to you with less stat boosting - so testing is easier, if ya know what I'm sayin'.
I've been here so long even Hanako is sick of me

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witchboy
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#174 Post by witchboy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:44 am

Talk of a sequel has reminded me I still need to play the first game.
I am pretty psyched about their being a male/male romance available for the lead character, a first for Hanako games unless I'm mistaken.
Gay male romances are still rare in Virtual novels in America, so I'm pretty psyched to know another one is in the works down the road. Having probably two male romance options is even better :)

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kurobizzle
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#175 Post by kurobizzle » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:13 am

When talking about a sequel to Horse Hall, would it be possible to just have a spin-off sequel game based solely on the romances that have the potential to have more added to them? I'm mainly talking about Damien and Grabiner of course but instead of making it a stat-raising sim game just a visual novel where you pick options?

I guess this is just my need for more on Grabiner romance. I mean c'mon, it just started by the end of the game if you took his route!!

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Bombermans
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#176 Post by Bombermans » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:39 am

It could be a nice addition to the Magical Diary series, and there's public here that would buy that spinoff (myself as well). That also would permit hanako to release SOMETHING about Magical Diary, since she can't make the sequel because of the artist problem. :(

I would buy the pseudosequel spin-off! I could be as a visual novel, just like kurobizzle said, but with some options of magic too (and dungeons!). That way it wouldn't mess with the continuity of the normal games (because it's a spin-off) and we would get not only more magical diary, but the sequel we all wanted!

Although we still have the artist problem. XD... I'm pretty sure we all loved that style and would be difficult to adapt to another one O.o (and having the pseudosequel with no new art wouldn't be so cool...)

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hanako
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#177 Post by hanako » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:05 pm

For the moment, romance-only followups are really better served by fanfic/fangames.

I am talking to artists and trying to get new sets of sprites created so that we can get rolling with Wolf Hall and other adventures. There actually are some preliminary sketch designs sitting around now - nothing I can show off yet, but there is at least a tiny bit of progress happening behind the scenes. So do not despair.

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FantasyFan
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#178 Post by FantasyFan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:40 pm

Yay!

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witchboy
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#179 Post by witchboy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:44 pm

That's great. I can accept moving on with a new artist if that's what it takes. I'm sure this will be great!

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hanako
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#180 Post by hanako » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:48 pm

So, who wants to see the new sprites? :)


(I'm not sure when I should start unveiling art since it's still going to be a long time before this gets anywhere, but there is progress! Would you rather wait to see things until there's actual GAME development going on?)

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