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Something I may have missed (Spoilers)

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:42 am
by Mystic Cake
A question regarding the plot for whomever can answer it. It's not really important, it just kinda bugs me. Spoilers follow, don't read if you haven't played the game.

Seriously, last chance.

Alright, here we go:

During Oscar's route, the castle gets besieged by rebels looking for Cass, which is a pretty important turning point for his arc; but why doesn't it happen in any of the other routes?

I thought it was initiated by the death of the guard that attacks you while you were escorting Cass back to the castle, and that happened before the branching so shouldn't it happen in every route?

Did I miss something important that happened in Oscar's route and not anyone else's that served to incite the rebels? I remember them mentioning a maid that was also killed in Oscar's route, but I also recall someone saying she was a nobody that didn't matter, Dolores, if I remember correctly.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:45 am
by Oki
Nope, only in Oscar's. Why? Because he and Cass had the brilliant idea to TELL EVERYONE IN THE CASTLE. Panic ensues.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:47 am
by Tellah
Mind you, I may have some of the fine details wrong-
But I thought things rapidly came to a head in the Oscar route because Cassidy pretty much announced to the assembled people at the castle that there was an assassination attempt in order to get Madeline out of jail, which lead to a lot of emotions running high/panic and the extra death of the maid through over-reaction. In the other routes I don't think the general population ever knew there was an assassination attempt, and thus things didn't escalate, people didn't leave the palace, riots never happened...
They even mention the maid, I think, in Callum's route, and she's never murdered like she is in Oscar's route, unless I am remembering wrong.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:49 am
by Mystic Cake
Ohhhhh, that makes much more sense. So it wasn't so much the guard himself, but the news of it getting out?

That's unfortunate, since the climax of the uprising had an amazing crowning moment of awesome for Duke Pherod, who sadly didn't get much screen time.

Actually, that raises another question. Considering in Gaston's route you literally switch with Cassidy and the news DOES later get out that there's a fake Cassidy because of... well, you, why no uprising then, considering the uprising was ABOUT there being a fake Cassidy?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:08 am
by biscuit
That's part of why even so Oscar is so SUPER ADORABLE in his good ending, I felt so very conflicted about pursuing this. I hate feeling (even indirectly) responsible for that tragedy. :(

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:18 am
by Mystic Cake
I always though of Oscar as kinda childish and not really cut out to be a king, he'd probably make a better travelling minstrel, considering his love of poetry XD

Come to think of it, of the 3 princes going for Cass it seems Nazagi is the only one who seems even remotely able to take on the responsibility of being a king.

I may be making a jump in logic here since we don't see much of their administrative abilities in the game except for Nazagi pretty much thinking ONLY in terms of political gain by getting to Cass first; but it seems to me that Oscar has little love for his responsibilities as a royal and Gaston seems to only care for the princess and less for the politics of his situation.

Still looking for someone to answer that question about Gaston's route not having the uprising, considering there was a public announcement about there being a fake Cassidy (though it was more like the king just telling everyone to shut up about it), and that was the whole reason there was an uprising in Oscar's route in the first place.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:15 am
by Tellah
My take on why there's an uprising in Oscar's route, but not Gaston's (rampant speculation and Bad Ending spoilers follows)-

In Oscar's route they just flat-out state to everyone that there was an assassination attempt, drawing attention to the faction who would bring harm to Cassidy in the first place/people who think that Cassidy is a fake. Then there was the lynching of the maid due to the hysteria flying around, which would only make the royals look even worse to the common people, because they killed one of their own for no reason (Dolores says she was harmless).

In Gaston's route, yes, there's a fake Cassidy- but it's easily explained because of Madeline's escape. The assassination attempt itself is never widely known, as far as I remember, so there is no mass hysteria in the palace, no murder, no real reason for the people who think Cassidy is a fake to take advantage of a bad situation and attack (even in Oscar's route, it's clear they have no strong leader).
Also, if you get Gaston's Bad End, Madeline as a Cassidy stand-in IS murdered by an assassin for being a fake. I'm just assuming with the royal wedding and all in the Good/Happy endings for Gaston, there's much more harmony and people watching out for the real Cassidy, so they never have the same chance.

To try and re-state it...
* In Oscar's route, there's mass hysteria due to the assassination attempt becoming common knowledge, and the lynching of the maid stirs the common people against the crown. This is the perfect chance for people who think Cassidy is a fake to stir up people into a revolt.
* In Gaston's route, I don't think a lot of people find out about the assassination attempt. No hysteria, no way for the people who think Cassidy is a fake to stir up things. 'Fake' Cassidy is easily explained as being Madeline in disguise. The people who think Cassidy is a fake are still around, and act on their issues in the Bad End.

Take everything with a grain of salt, as it's just my interpretation/memories of how things went down.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:57 am
by Mystic Cake
Hmmm, well I haven't gotten Gaston's bad ending -or Oscar's, for that matter- so I did not know that, I thought the whole 'Fake Cassidy' thing was largely brushed under the rug towards the end with the marriage, as was the intention with that.

It just seemed funny to me that the rebels who were so upset about a fake Cassidy in Oscar's route just did nothing in Gaston's route when there was a big deal about there being a fake Cassidy.

Well I suppose that's satisfactory enough for me. Thank you very much for your assistance. :3

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:29 am
by Tellah
I guess spoilers are dumb in a spoiler thread, so I'll refrain (largely) this time XD

My take is- there is always a faction of people that believe in the 'fake Cassidy' business- there's always an assassin, after all, near the beginning of the game.

They just tend to stay in the background in most routes because they don't have a strong leader (even in Oscar's route, they are shut down rather easily because of this). In many of the Good/Normal endings, there's a royal marriage/alliance/something to make it hard for them to act.

In Gaston's Bad Ending, there is no marriage, so they are free to act.

In the Oscar route, they take advantage of the chaos the knowledge of the assassination attempt causes, along with the murder of the maid to stir up the populace. My impression was that out of those attacking the palace, not all of them even -cared- about the fake Cassidy thing- it was a big mob of people where some were mad about the murder, some wanted to pull 'fake' Cassidy out of power, and some people just wanted to loot the palace.

There just isn't a big ball of chaos in any other route to the same level, so the people who believe in the 'fake' Cassidy theory largely never get a change to find as much support in other routes.

Again, this is all just how I saw things, so I may be wrong on some point XD

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:44 am
by Mystic Cake
Well the problem with that is that the people who instigated the revolt actually DID care about the fake Cassidy (at some point, Duke Pherod says it kinda spun out of control, too), so when there's a fuss about it in Gaston's route, why would they NOT take advantage of that?

I understand why they DO in Oscar's route, but why not in Gaston's when there was already a (relatively) minor fuss about there being a fake Cassidy?

In Nazagi's and Callum's routes, things were largely kept under wraps as both of them got you out of the dungeons before Cassidy did something rash like in Oscar's or Gaston's route, but there WAS a fuss about there being a fake Cassidy in Gaston's route, and there was still the assassination attempt beforehand, so why did the instigators not take their chance as they did in Oscar's route?

Based on what you've said before, I assume it's because there wasn't a mass-exodus from the castle due to concerns of safety since it was just a fake Cassidy rumor rather than an announcement about the assassination, so the word didn't spread to the villages about the piss-poor security they had at the castle, and thus, looters lead the charge under the guise of there being a fake Cassidy, when they don't really give a damn.

Does that sound about right?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:12 am
by Tellah
Hmm, maybe I'm not being entirely clear...

Yes, there -are- people who care about the rumors of a 'fake' Cassidy/question the succession to the throne. The assassination that happens before the routes split proves it.

However, my supposition is that there is not a -huge- amount of people who are fanatic to that cause. The assassin from every route is pretty much confirmed to have been working alone- he most likely was in the 'right' place at the 'right' time, and just acted on a rare chance.

The fake Cassidy in Gaston's route, I think, didn't cause a panic because there was a simple (true-ish) explanation that it was Madeline the Fugitive in a wig. This would not convince any fanatics that Cassidy is the real princess (see Gaston's Bad End), but it wouldn't throw people into a panic or sway the nobles/commoners against the crown either. Nobody left the castle, the guards didn't turn on each other- the place wasn't as 'weakened' as it could have been.

In Oscar's route, exposing the assassination attempt probably just emboldened the people who believed Cassidy to be a fake (since, let's face it, Cassidy almost died there), panicked the nobles and threw distrust in amongst the guards, leading to the death of that maid. The death of the maid would make commoners angry and make the guards and maybe even the royals look even worse in the eyes of the people- and thus it was a situation that the people who really believed that Cassidy was a fake and needed to die to take advantage of.

It's just sort of a degree of severity, in my opinion.
Things just didn't snowball out of control in Gaston's route like they did with Oscar's.

There are always people who think that Cassidy is a fake and want her dead because of that/because they think Duke Pherod's line should be in power.
They almost always act alone or with minimal connections (assassin, Gaston's Bad End), in my opinion. I don't believe there are a lot of them because even in Oscar's route, look at how fast they fell apart/how disorganized they ultimately ended up being- I don't think for a moment that everyone was attacking the castle because of Cassidy in that case.
Pherod's actions even sort of point to this- it wasn't "I'm waiting for a revolution to break out", it was "I think a handful of dumbasses might do something stupid."

Again, it's all my opinion XD But it makes sense to me. I'm not sure if I'm entirely clear... I'm sort of bad at explaining things.

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:14 pm
by Oki
I'll add another point to say this, when it comes to Gaston Maddy literally takes Cassidy's place in that ending. No one knows there is an issue, no one knows there is a conflict. You have instead a radical alone with Cassidy who has no marriage prospects and no knowledge of the guards enough to go, hey, maybe I should have another attendant with my at all times! It's one guy attacking Cassidy for radicalism. In Oscar's route it's more complex and they flat out scream SHE STOPPED ME FROM BEING MURDERED panic ensues

Again, I like Oscar but a poor woman gets lynched in that route ;_o