Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

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SoggyBobcat
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#31 Post by SoggyBobcat » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:51 am

I think there's room for more options dealing with the snake. Perhaps a Running check, or an Archery check (throw a rock), or even an Animal Handling/Voice/Instrument check (charm the snake).

Mmeaninglessnamee
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#32 Post by Mmeaninglessnamee » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:41 am

I suggested this in another thread. The note about the squid is from a squid prince. Marry him to ally with the Kraken :D

Umm, maybe having high intrigue give you the option to hire a food taster to avoid the chocolates. Like, you know there's people trying to kill you, stupid girl. (though that you can have a moment of extreme stupidity is still fun) I don't know. I feel like the chocolates thing has been discussed a lot, but that's a reasonable extra solution.

More evil options. Evil is fun. I don't want to actually see it to the "Elodie drowns girls for her pleasure" extent described above, but trying again and again to sacrifice my cousin made me really like cruelty and wish there was more of it.

GSN22
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#33 Post by GSN22 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:00 pm

Here's an awesome idea- why not include a Map of the game accessible in-game, along with the ability to access different areas for descriptions?

You could also do a character index where you can look up the (many, countless) characters in the game.

Their info stats could be updated as time goes by based on how you interact with them or stat upgrades you get that provide more information and background. (ie, certain characters that die, etc.)

It'd also be nice to have an easily accessible inventory menu where you can check out items you've procured in-game or already own. (like your weapons) The vault kinda does that but it is rather incomplete.

GSN22
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#34 Post by GSN22 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:24 pm

Also, I remember being really hardcore and unlocking every ending in the game.

It'd be nice if the game incentivized you for doing this. A New Game+ mode that allow minor unlockables that assist in-game (like minor stat boosts- defeating Togami with magic offers a book of magic duel history that gives +10 in magic stats, stuff of that nature) would be pretty sweet.

If Chrono Trigger and Disgaea series show anything, it's that fans love New Game+ and it encourages players to keep on playing. :D

KironD63
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#35 Post by KironD63 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:33 am

* I'd love a New Game + option that allowed you to transfer a percentage of your stats built from previous playthroughs. Transferring 100% of your earned stats from classes would probably be overkill, but something like 50% or even 25% of earned values -- heck, even just keeping previously unlocked Costumes -- would give real incentive to replay.

* As others have mentioned, an accessible map in game (perhaps with a few sentences describing each Duchy as you click on them, which could be fleshed out further if you send Elodie to history classes) would be easy to implement and well worth it.

* More interaction in general with the supporting cast would be phenomenal. I feel like the classes give me plenty of information regarding the complexities of Nova's history and certain political machinations, but after half a dozen playthroughs I still honestly have no idea who these people are -- which ones are trustworthy, what their agendas are, etc. It'd be nice if increasing a stat like Intrigue gave us the opportunity to investigate specific individuals (not just 'the Nobility' or 'the Commoners') to learn what those people really think of you, so you can plan accordingly. It'd be similarly nice if increasing more diplomatic stats in Conversation would lead to options to improve relations with maligned individuals -- perhaps a fee would be associated with either possibility.

* A few more options to deal with the snake and a couple other early-game issues that arise in the first ten days would increase replay value as I'd have different ways to play those first few days than just boosting Reflexes or Composure to avoid the consequences. In the early game in particular I think it's more important to not tie success to any single stat -- there should be two or three different ways of approaching those problems. Otherwise you'll always have the same build around Day 7.

* I don't think you need to add new skills, but it'd be nice if existing skills were fleshed out. Increasing 'Dogs', 'Horses' or 'Falcons' could give you the option to own and name a pet dog, horse or falcon, as an example. Having that pet around can change certain outcomes, but Elodie would also become miserably depressed if that pet died as a result of your poor decisions.

* If there's one existing event that'd really benefit with additional scenes or more dialogue, it's the ballroom dancing sequence. It'd be nice to have the opportunity to chat up the crowd before or after the dancing. In general, I feel the romance element of the game would benefit from just a little more depth -- just a few more snippets of dialogue would flesh out these characters and give me reasons to want to match Elodie with particular suitors.

GSN22
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#36 Post by GSN22 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:43 am

"* I'd love a New Game + option that allowed you to transfer a percentage of your stats built from previous playthroughs. Transferring 100% of your earned stats from classes would probably be overkill, but something like 50% or even 25% of earned values -- heck, even just keeping previously unlocked Costumes -- would give real incentive to replay."

I really like that idea. It also encourages you to play multiple times in different ways and not to sweat messing stat checks as much. Probably the best way to encourage multiple playthroughs, imo, since it rewards you for doing so but doesn't necessarily give you god-stats either.

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hanako
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#37 Post by hanako » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:45 pm

There will never, ever, under any circumstances, be an official New Game + for this game. :) It undermines the gameplay concept and the need to learn and make decisions with tradeoffs.

However, if you want to play that way, I believe someone's written an unofficial mod for that in the modding subforum.

---

I'm currently most of the way through implementing my planned list of changes, so expect a beta patch to come out in the next week or so. There may be a few more things to come in as people see and react to the new content.

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Mir
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#38 Post by Mir » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:20 pm

Oh, no! I'm not too late, am I? I've been replaying the game and thinking about this and I've thought of a few more suggestions. If everything has been decided, please disregard the below.

1. Requesting a few more details about Banion, Brin, and Bennett. One person brought up that Banion will still marry Elodie even if Brin has been executed and there won't be any (additional) signs of tension in the marriage. I agree that Banion would probably still marry Elodie, but something like Elodie having a lot of near misses with freak accidents after the heir to the throne (and possibly Maree) have been produced would be a nice touch. Also, Banion being killed in a duel or being executed doesn't do anything to stop Brin from sending Elodie flowers and becoming her girlfriend if she dances with her, even though she still votes with her brother at the Vote of No Confidence. That strikes me as a little odd. Perhaps have her abstain/vote with the queen at the ball (if she's lovestruck) or never send flowers at all (if she's angry over her little brother's death). (And if Elodie win the Vote of No Confidence, Banion's titles go to Bennett, but in the case of Brin's death or disinheriting, Bennett is already the Duke of Hellas. There could be another few lines addressing this (even if it's just something as simple as "I don't know! Pick someone to be Duke of Maree!"). ...I'm actually curious as to what happened to get him disinherited. I can kind of guess with Ignatius, but Bennett's a mystery (was it marrying Lieke?).)

2. Thirding Spybard as another female love interest. She's so hilariously smug. I love her.

3. I also really like the idea of meeting other characters in the castle, just for flavor. Being able to speak with Arisse at least once if she's your advisor is one I'd really like to see, but a couple of other encounters appeal to me, too- I like people's idea of being able to play toys with Charlotte and Adair, and I think speaking with Briony as either a guest or a hostage somewhere would be great. You could also speak with Talarist on week 12 if you turned him down and passed the Court Manners check, since he asks Elodie to show her around the castle (Animal Handling skill check here? Marrying him after this if you don't make him your subject gives the player an epilogue about them having a family with a bunch of exotic pets, so just perhaps an occasion for Elodie to successfully make small talk. Failing wouldn't make him talk about her behind her back, though).

4. Related to the above, I could dig a few more details about the Sedna-Elath situation being added to the game. For example, if you speak with Fabian at the ball while engaged to Talarist, he could have some slightly different dialogue implying, as politely as he can, that he's a little concerned about your choice of husband. He might not think that Adair might be in danger anymore, but he still doesn't feel good about the son (grandson?) of the people who killed Duchess Cayleigh's mother and sister being the king. If Elodie passed the Foreign Intelligence check earlier in the conversation, she'll know exactly why he's concerned. Also, if Adair is successfully assassinated and Elodie doesn't make Talarist the Duke, I think there should be some issues if she tries to marry him at the end of the game, especially if she suspects him of killing Adair and/or he invades when she gives the Duchy to someone else. Marrying him to improve border relations while Adair is still alive is one thing, but things after an assassination would be different. Either she'd be too suspicious to marry him, the nobility and peasants would be too against the marriage to accept it, or both she and him would have demands about the border situation after the invasion that neither was willing to meet or compromise about. Could be another way to get the heartbreak window pane without being rejected by Kevan. If the ending about them having a nice family after a long courtship is supposed to imply that they worked out everything despite Talarist being a manipulative jerk, I think it's best reserved for when Talarist doesn't succeed in any power play he tries - whether it's killing Adair or getting engaged to Elodie (Elodie chooses to go after him in the ending). ...Unless Elodie's cruelty stat is high and the implication is that they're awful people together.

5. Potentially sacrificing other people to the Kraken? If Elodie talked to Julianna beforehand about Selene being a Lumen, there could be an option to attempt to talk Julianna into being the sacrifice. High public speaking + presence + lore or something like that to convince her that being a sacrifice is absolutely serving the needs of Nova, the crystals, and Lumenkind - because if someone doesn't stop the Kraken, it might ruin Nova and cause Lumens to be reviled even further because people would know what woke up the Kraken. Her sacrifice could be seen as a taking of responsibility - damage control. I don't know. This still might not be appropriate for Julianna's character (she might respond that Elodie's the more appropriate candidate), but if it is....perhaps an Internal Affairs skill check to ask her about her feelings about leaving Ursul's duties to Briony or Ignatius? Still a cruel action, but doesn't get you hated like sacrificing Charlotte, since people see it as "good riddance to bad influences". Selene would abandon you after the sacrifice if you did this, however, possibly after attempting to drown you in your bedroom while you slept (Swimming check to survive long enough to open the window to let the water out, reflexes check so you can grab onto something and not get swept out your window and crack your skull)? Or you could sacrifice Selene and have Julianna abandon you? Sacrifice Lucille and ruin your relationship with Charlotte? Possibly have Joslyn step forward and offer himself as a sacrifice if Elodie tries to offer herself? Alternatively, if you defeated the condemned man on week 20 and passed the Lore check when discussing the crystal with your tutor, you could potentially offer other nobles-as-potential-Lumens as a sacrifice. Now that could get a bit tricky, considering the sheer amount of nobles, but it could be limited to whoever you have in jail (Laurent, Banion, Kevan...though I can see the Kevan option going very wrong and Elodie having to select again next week) or....well, if Adair has been assassinated and Elodie was suspicious of Talasse but still ennobled Talarist, she could offer Talarist as a descendant of the House of Elath as a human sacrifice, assuming she has enough troops to arrest him. You'd have to reassign the Duchy of Elath once again and Talasse would be angry with you in the epilogue, but it might bring up noble and commoner approval a little if it's framed as divine justice for Adair's death. Sacrificing Laurent or Banion would still get people angry with you, even if they won't be as angry over sacrificing a grown man as opposed to an innocent young girl. I do like the idea of being able to sacrifice Arisse if you fail a Novan History check (and have enough troops) and having it not satisfy the Kraken since Arisse is a descendant of Yeveni nomads, not Lumen. It would end in everyone being so angry with you that you lose your right to rule and get a non-standard game over. However, I imagine that Arisse probably has some Lumen blood from her house intermarrying with the other noble houses, so that might not make sense.

6. Again, having Briony and Elodie develop a more mature love if the Mead Ducal Family starts communicating again and Elodie can decipher the letter. It wouldn't be super srs business (because Briony), but it'd be nice to have another Elodie/Briony ending.

There are a few other things (marrying Chaine of Mima, getting intelligence about Arisse's successor and unlocking the option to successfully marry Kiran without it turning out badly, getting Kevan out of his situation and into a better one without marrying him, getting Julianna and Selene to marry without slaying Togami...), but those sound more like wanting everything to be perfect, which it can't be. ^^ Also, a friend of mine would really like to see a portrait for Adair if it turns out that more art will be provided after all.

Thank you so, so much for taking fan feedback. I really appreciate it. (I hope this all didn't sound too demanding...)

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hanako
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#39 Post by hanako » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:52 pm

There actually is an epilogue where you can marry Chaine, Earl of Mima, but it's a complete offhand comment in someone else's epilogue (you fail to marry your original target, so decide to marry him instead) so it's hard to catch.
(And if Elodie win the Vote of No Confidence, Banion's titles go to Bennett, but in the case of Brin's death or disinheriting, Bennett is already the Duke of Hellas. There could be another few lines addressing this (even if it's just something as simple as "I don't know! Pick someone to be Duke of Maree!")
There should be a line of dialogue that already comes up in that case, where Elodie says that the titles will go to Bennett's offspring (Which would be Gwenelle's half-brother Anciet). Which is slightly dodgy for complex Novan inheritance reasons but given the situation at the time nobody's really going to argue with her about it!

There are some other ways to get the heartbreak window that don't involve Kevan - proposing to Kiran after a civil war or Linley if you exiled his mother during the hostage exchange should also get that result.
I think there should be some issues if she tries to marry him at the end of the game, especially if she suspects him of killing Adair and/or he invades when she gives the Duchy to someone else. Marrying him to improve border relations while Adair is still alive is one thing, but things after an assassination would be different. Either she'd be too suspicious to marry him, the nobility and peasants would be too against the marriage to accept it, or both she and him would have demands about the border situation after the invasion that neither was willing to meet or compromise about. Could be another way to get the heartbreak window pane without being rejected by Kevan. If the ending about them having a nice family after a long courtship is supposed to imply that they worked out everything despite Talarist being a manipulative jerk, I think it's best reserved for when Talarist doesn't succeed in any power play he tries - whether it's killing Adair or getting engaged to Elodie (Elodie chooses to go after him in the ending).
I believe there's already a slightly different epilogue for marrying Talarist if he invaded Elath during the game, where it's implied that he was still causing trouble and she marries him to make him behave, rather than getting the happy family outcome. I haven't playtested that particular route recently though so I can't be 100% sure it's coming up, but it's at least written in!

For the rest - wait and see what's coming and then possibly ask again? :) Some points may or may not already be addressed by what's going to beta soon. I just wanted to touch on some things that are already possible, if obscure.

grawr
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#40 Post by grawr » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:30 am

I'd like to second the extra kraken options - there are plenty to of almost lumens and lumens to choose from :twisted:
Another thing I'd like is for Elodie to be able to take up Togami's mantle, assuming she has a high lore and military score, defeats him in the duel, and is rather cruel. She'd bring Nova to new heights (and possibly destruction?) by collecting and retuning crystals the way (an educated guess, at least) Togami was.
Something you're already probably doing (if my guess is right) is dealing with Charlotte's lack of a crystal in certain endings, despite having one available... If not, expanding on that would be nice.
Perhaps if Elodie does well, and has high lumen approval and lore skills, she could resume Nova's collection of the light as well and begin Nova's reexpansion; instead of simply cataloging the light as in one ending. None of the endings right now seem to address Nova's relative weakness compared to what it once was; Nova can end up all right with Elodie, but none of the endings suggest it's on it's way to regaining it's former glory. This would balance out that there are several ways to cause Nova significant problems in the near future.
More death endings (ideally somewhat difficult to avoid) are also always a good thing, too (why else would anyone buy this??).

Thanks for an enjoyable game!

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hanako
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#41 Post by hanako » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:16 pm

There already is an epilogue where Charlotte attempts to bond with the orange crystal, if you have it handy and her mother is Lumen Minister, but it doesn't work. If you have the purple crystal from her mother trying to kill you, though, you're sort of unlikely to just hand it over. At least not soon! This isn't to say what may or may not be being added, just clarifying on what's already there again. :)

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Mir
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#42 Post by Mir » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 am

hanako wrote:There should be a line of dialogue that already comes up in that case, where Elodie says that the titles will go to Bennett's offspring (Which would be Gwenelle's half-brother Anciet). Which is slightly dodgy for complex Novan inheritance reasons but given the situation at the time nobody's really going to argue with her about it!
...

I believe there's already a slightly different epilogue for marrying Talarist if he invaded Elath during the game, where it's implied that he was still causing trouble and she marries him to make him behave, rather than getting the happy family outcome. I haven't playtested that particular route recently though so I can't be 100% sure it's coming up, but it's at least written in!
Oops, you're right! I checked and I misread the line about Bennett's offspring and I was going off of what a friend said about marrying Talarist, though now I'm wondering if I even understood what she meant in the first place. :S

I haven't tried proposing to Linley after exiling Charmion, but every attempt to marry Kiran after executing/exiling Arisse gives me the swirly default pane. Of course, I might be missing something to trigger it, so there's that. (And very, very interesting about Chaine. I shall keep a lookout for him in future playthroughs.)

Thank you for taking the time to clarify this! Really looking forward to the patch. :O

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hanako
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Re: Final Plot Update - Planning Thread

#43 Post by hanako » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:47 pm

If the swirly one's coming up there, that's probably a bug we should check

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