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hanako
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#91 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:55 pm

Frustration "OMG, my bui;ld is useless here" is much more angering one over "Hm, I wonder if that could happen in real world" (yeah, 'cos Lumen happen everywhere).
True, but if you know who's trying to kill you (THAT time), it shouldn't be a surprise that it's designed to be able to catch a Lumen unawares! You're going to have to rely on something else here.

Or else stop the assassination attempt from happening in the first place. :)

Some more options in the final duel are coming, I'm working on it.

fictionalfemme
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#92 Post by fictionalfemme » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:08 pm

Would it be possible to have an option to make the game 'easier' by allowing a single skill out of a group to be raised higher than 50 (maybe 75?) before the other two need to be raised to 25? I know that properly building up your character is all part of the game but it'd be nice to have an easy/normal/hard option with that as a basis IMO.

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hanako
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#93 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:29 pm

Allowing that much mastery without requiring at least some experience in related skills first would still quite heavily unbalance gameplay (because it would mean you could frantically cram something in a short period of time), and not make sense for fluff reasons.

If I were going to test out a secret easy mode it would probably be something like lowering the threshold to 20 instead of 25.

But at the moment, I would rather have people outright cheat. (Which is slightly difficult as we haven't leaked any cheat codes yet!)

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#94 Post by Yuki » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:14 pm

hanako wrote:He's related to a lot of people and there are two different ways that can trigger. One of them is the civil war, but when that's the case Elodie knows what he's talking about and will remind the player that you executed his mother Arisse after winning the civil war.
That's fair enough.
When Elodie has no idea what he's talking about, that's because he's upset about Briony (his niece) having run off and gotten herself killed. If you didn't get involved in her subplot Elodie may have had no clue that Briony was dead.
Unless the player took part in the civil war or Briony's subplot, in which she presumably gets killed (I haven't been there yet), I'd leave this out, as I can't see any plausable reason why Kevan would blame Elodie (of all people) for Briony's death when she wasn't even remotely involved.
SHE is completely confused about what he's talking about, and HE'S too upset to explain. (Kevan is... Unstable.) In the case where you're supposed to know what he's talking about, Elodie adds a line to remind the player that Briony was his niece.

I'm not surprised he doesn't explain - Elodie doesn't even ask. I think it's unlikely that after someone has accused you of being responsible for someone's death and then challenges you to duel, you wouldn't at least ask them to explain why (or even who) first.

I think a choice over whether or not to use magic in the sea battle would be good too, because I don't think you're actually given one; the use of magic automatically overrides the possibility of a conventional battle.
iselwin wrote:I thought it was just a fluff . Could you also add some additional fluff text to the 100 Wield Magic to emphasise that Magic Sword is your ultimate combat technique?
I think the text gives enough clues as to what your capabilities are already. Same with the other skills.

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#95 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:33 pm

Yuki wrote:
When Elodie has no idea what he's talking about, that's because he's upset about Briony (his niece) having run off and gotten herself killed. If you didn't get involved in her subplot Elodie may have had no clue that Briony was dead.
Unless the player took part in the civil war or Briony's subplot, in which she presumably gets killed (I haven't been there yet), I'd leave this out, as I can't see any plausable reason why Kevan would blame Elodie (of all people) for Briony's death when she wasn't even remotely involved.
Because when they try to track what happened to her, the clues point in Elodie's direction. You have seen the scene with Briony's mother coming looking for her right? Briony did leave evidence that implicates Elodie in her disappearance, that's why she's asking you. Briony's mother believes you if you say you have no idea; Briony's uncle, however, sees his sister hysterically upset and blames you.

When you've actually done that subplot you may have slightly more idea of what's going on.

I'm not surprised he doesn't explain - Elodie doesn't even ask. I think it's unlikely that after someone has accused you of being responsible for someone's death and then challenges you to duel, you wouldn't at least ask them to explain why (or even who) first.
Possible, but I'm pretty sure the conversation will go along the lines of
'What did I do???'
'You know what you did!' *attacks*
I think a choice over whether or not to use magic in the sea battle would be good too, because I don't think you're actually given one; the use of magic automatically overrides the possibility of a conventional battle.
I am reasonably sure that if you have the people necessary to do the conjoined magical thing you ARE asked if you want to take the risk and have the option to say no, it's just that it's the week before the battle when that decision is made.

Or are you saying that you did not do the conjunction but still didn't get the flag for a naval victory? I'll have to check the code.

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#96 Post by Yuki » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:56 am

hanako wrote:When you've actually done that subplot you may have slightly more idea of what's going on.
I'll check it out.
I am reasonably sure that if you have the people necessary to do the conjoined magical thing you ARE asked if you want to take the risk and have the option to say no, it's just that it's the week before the battle when that decision is made.

Or are you saying that you did not do the conjunction but still didn't get the flag for a naval victory? I'll have to check the code.
I've just checked the transcript and the only choices I'm offered is to either recruit more soldiers (or not) and to either join the fleet or stay at the castle.

But this is where it gets strange: If I choose to join the fleet, the magic victory triggers (as expected), but if I stay at the castle, I do actually win the naval battle despite not leading it myself, which I didn't think could be done (looking at the other thread).

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#97 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:05 am

Can you send me a log? Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or something went wrong somewhere.

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#98 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:58 am

Ever since I started keeping a log of when things happen (too both follow the intrigue better and maybe, for once, survive to the end) I've found it very inconvenient that the Week number is only displayed on the class results pop-up. It would be very helpful if it was always visible in the corner somewhere when you are in Elodie's room.

Also, not sure if this qualifies as a bug or not, but it's feedback - I can't understand how to read the calendar clock in the upper right corner of the screen. The Roman numerals in the center don't correspond to the week - maybe the day? But I've seen it go up to numbers like 8 and 11. Also, there are 13 (Chinese?) symbols around the circle edge. Since there are 13, that they can't represent months or days or even weeks . . . . :?

I guess what I'm asking is, "What is it there for?" and "How do I use it?"

EDIT: Also, I asked the Duchess of Ursul about 'Drastic Action' and she said if I tried to get into the Treasury and failed to come back and see her. I tried and failed (0.0 Presence and 0.0 Accounting) but the Duchess never re-appeared on the Weekend Activities screen until Week 18, which is WEEKS after I tried to get into the Treasury. When I took a class in Presence, the Duchess reappeared on the Weekend activities screen, but WITHOUT me trying to get into the Treasury again. It seems if the player tries to enter the Treasury with no skill at all something breaks, only triggering later when the player puts points into one of the two skills.

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hanako
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#99 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:02 pm

The calendar marks the month (yes, there are 13), the day of the month, and the phase of the moon. At one point some of that information was going to matter, but it got dropped from plans, so it's mostly just decoration now.

I agree that a week display would be useful, I'm just not sure where to put it. I could remove the day-of-the-month calculation since it's not useful for anything and put a week stamp there instead?

Drastic Action doesn't become an option until well into the game. It's not likely that you'll be able to get into the treasury when she first suggests it to you, so it gives you some time to try and figure it out. Only after time has passed and you still haven't done it does your mentor come back and suggest trying it the other way. It's just coincidence that the scheduled reappearance happened after you took a Presence class.

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#100 Post by Yuki » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:21 pm

hanako wrote:Can you send me a log? Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or something went wrong somewhere.
PM sent.

Also, I ought to mention that if you achieve a magic victory, something unusual happens on Week 37: After you've done your classes, the window that tells you your stats have increased and by how much etc. stays on the screen (with the bedroom in the background) while your father is telling you about the Kraken; it doesn't go back to the castle background as it usually does.

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#101 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:34 pm

Ahhh, okay, I see what happened now. You didn't get a choice because you had all four Lumens signed up. You do get to choose whether or not to go through with it if you have only three.

It's less dangerous your way, so the person describing the plan to you wasn't doing the 'are you sure about this?' (well, that and I think I figured anyone who'd assembled that much power was TRYING to go this route :) ) But it's probably reasonable to add a choice anyway just in case.

(the other's a bug, will fix)

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#102 Post by Yuki » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:21 pm

hanako wrote: It's less dangerous your way, so the person describing the plan to you wasn't doing the 'are you sure about this?' (well, that and I think I figured anyone who'd assembled that much power was TRYING to go this route :) ) But it's probably reasonable to add a choice anyway just in case.
I found it as easy to get four as to get three, because if your stats are high enough for you to get the crystal off the convict, they should be high enough for you to find out that your Aunt is a Lumen too. I wasn't specifically going for that ending, but I went down that route mainly because I was curious as to what the convict's secret was more than anything else. The rest just followed on from that.

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#103 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:28 pm

Getting the crystal off the convict is not what's needed to have four. You can't use that crystal at all, as was mentioned in the epilogue.

You pick up the fourth when you do any number of activities in a certain location while having a high Sense Magic skill and then go and talk to Julianna about it afterwards (Week 18 in your playthrough).

Admittedly if you have enough skills to detect your aunt then it's fairly likely you will detect Selene at some point, unless you're on a path where you banished Julianna at the beginning and have been working with Selene all the time. On that route it's impossible to get four. It's also quite possible to pick up Selene but miss Lucille.

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#104 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:38 pm

hanako wrote:The calendar marks the month (yes, there are 13), the day of the month, and the phase of the moon. At one point some of that information was going to matter, but it got dropped from plans, so it's mostly just decoration now.
Ah, okay. Yeah, I should have figured out the Roman numerals were jumping by 7.
hanako wrote: I agree that a week display would be useful, I'm just not sure where to put it. I could remove the day-of-the-month calculation since it's not useful for anything and put a week stamp there instead?
I think that would be a good place for it, yes. Just put "Week 1" etc. were the days were, since the Week is very important for the player, but the day of the month is not. Labeling the number in the center "Week" will also make it more obvious to players.
hanako wrote: Drastic Action doesn't become an option until well into the game. It's not likely that you'll be able to get into the treasury when she first suggests it to you, so it gives you some time to try and figure it out. Only after time has passed and you still haven't done it does your mentor come back and suggest trying it the other way. It's just coincidence that the scheduled reappearance happened after you took a Presence class.
Okay. That wasn't obvious. The player is told "Try and get in, and if you fail, come back to see me." The player can try and fail the next week. In the player's mind all conditions have been met at that point, so they expect the Duchess to be available again the next week.

I understand the time delay for balance reasons, so the player can't just grab the crystal with no skills in Week 4, but I don't think the Duchess should even mention "Drastic Action" until it is actually an option. It would be less confusing that way.

----------

Finally, I'm still having trouble understanding what skill penalties and bonuses are being caused by what moods (or events). Would it be possible to have the ability to mouse-over or click on the penalties or bonuses and be told what is affecting them?

For example, -3.00 penalty could display "Caused By: Yielding Mood. Event." etc.

I think the game needs a little more transparency in that area. It took me a long time to realize that certain game actions (and not just moods) where affecting my skill bonuses and penalties. And even after playing the game a lot, it is still difficult to correlate which combination of moods is affecting which skill.

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#105 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:54 pm

For example, -3.00 penalty could display "Caused By: Yielding Mood. Event." etc.

I think the game needs a little more transparency in that area. It took me a long time to realize that certain game actions (and not just moods) where affecting my skill bonuses and penalties. And even after playing the game a lot, it is still difficult to correlate which combination of moods is affecting which skill.
The only things that are affecting your bonuses and penalties is your 'Current Mood' status and the related skills you've studied. I have no idea what you mean by events and actions. :)

(There are some rare circumstances where a game event can leave you in a special mood called 'Injured', but in that case the mood screen will still display your current mood as Injured.)

It's all a matter of math. A fractional amount of the learned skills in each subset gets added to the subset bonus. An even smaller fractional amount of the learned skills in each category gets added to the category bonus. Any time that the numbers don't match up, there's a mood effect in place.

There could be a marker by them indicating that they're being affected by a mood at the moment, but there's nothing else to breakdown! The problem isn't that it's not transparent, the problem is that it's a lot of data and people's minds have trouble dealing with it. Making the display more complicated might make that problem worse.

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