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hanako
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#76 Post by hanako » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:47 pm

A mouseover works for the simple ones, but is going to have trouble with

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If Lonely > 0, + 1 Pressure +1 Cheerful
Else if Pressure > 0, +1 Pressure +1 Depressed 
Else +1 Pressure 
which would be the correct result for the ballroom event.

Or do you mean displaying what the visible effects would be if you chose that event at that particular time? (so that it would only show +1 Pressure +1 Cheerful, if applicable, and not mention the rest) That's doable.
It would be nice if the player could pull up a map at any time, especially when a country or province is mentioned and be able to see where it is.
If you see the map I've posted, you will notice that there are multiple named locations that aren't even on it because they're too far away to be displayed properly. Even *I* don't have a map of Shanjia.

It would not be impossible to have a map of Nova *only* that is automatically displayed when a location is referenced in dialogue (not classes) and highlights the relevant provinces.

OTOH no one has shown much interest in the map I do have now that I've posted it, which isn't really making me agree that it's necessary. :) Does looking at that map make any difference to your calculations?

---

Unrelated question - Has anyone actually encountered the commoner riots at the end of the game? I worry I may have made that one too easy to avoid!

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flwriter124
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#77 Post by flwriter124 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:28 pm

oh i've run into it! i was like "what did i do to deserve that?!" luckily a little lumen magic put them in their place :twisted: x)

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hanako
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#78 Post by hanako » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Ah good, just making sure SOMEONE found it. :)

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LateWhiteRabbit
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#79 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:38 pm

hanako wrote: Or do you mean displaying what the visible effects would be if you chose that event at that particular time? (so that it would only show +1 Pressure +1 Cheerful, if applicable, and not mention the rest) That's doable.
Yes, that. So that if I hover over "Attend Court" on Weekend Activities it will show what effects I would gain by choosing that activity at that moment. For instance, +2 Yielding, +1 Pressure, +1 Depression, etc.

Particularly activities like the Attend Services, where the affect can change from week to week. One week it reduces Anger, the next Cheerfulness (I suspect it pulls Moods back towards baseline?)
hanako wrote: If you see the map I've posted, you will notice that there are multiple named locations that aren't even on it because they're too far away to be displayed properly. Even *I* don't have a map of Shanjia.

It would not be impossible to have a map of Nova *only* that is automatically displayed when a location is referenced in dialogue (not classes) and highlights the relevant provinces.
I understand, the info on the map would be a lot to put in, and I would never want a map to "automatically" open up. But I do think having an option to look at a map SOMEWHERE in the game would be nice for people that care about it. (Even if it is just a static image.)
hanako wrote: OTOH no one has shown much interest in the map I do have now that I've posted it, which isn't really making me agree that it's necessary. :) Does looking at that map make any difference to your calculations?
I've been quite interested in the map you posted, I just haven't commented on it yet. I've actually referred to it while playing. I don't know if your Beta group is large enough tell who cares about maps and who doesn't yet. Most of us are focusing on other bugs or the game at the moment in our feedback. Besides "map love" is a huge part of fantasy! :wink:

Incidentally, where is the Princess's palace located on the map you posted?
hanako wrote: Unrelated question - Has anyone actually encountered the commoner riots at the end of the game? I worry I may have made that one too easy to avoid!

I'll let you know once I reach the end of the game. So far death has been too hard to avoid! :lol:

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hanako
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#80 Post by hanako » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:47 pm

Incidentally, where is the Princess's palace located on the map you posted?
The capital city is on Lampsi Island, between Mazomba and Caloris.

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LateWhiteRabbit
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#81 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:32 am

hanako wrote:
Incidentally, where is the Princess's palace located on the map you posted?
The capital city is on Lampsi Island, between Mazomba and Caloris.
Thanks. That's one of the things that wasn't clear without a map! It lets me know why Shanjia got troops overland so quickly and the importance of a navy!

EDIT: Does the ocean have a name?

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hanako
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#82 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:07 am

I don't think I've ever given it one officially, no. Since there aren't multiple oceans being talked about it didn't need one.

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#83 Post by iselwin » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:33 am

Having just beaten the game, I must say... WOW. Now that is what I call a damn good game. When it's out, I'll be gifting it to my friends left and right.

Still, IMHO, there are some weaker parts of it.

1) Winning the magic duel requiring the Sword skill has "What?" written all over it. For a game with branching so rich, I expected better than that. Perhaps there could be a way to squeeze more use for some underutilized skills? E. g. achieve extremely focused state through the Meditation. Or apply some Strategy to your actions. Or even (would take some careful writing) actually make sensible use of the Poison skill.

2) Wield magic affecting the naval battle definitely should be explained somewhere in-game.

3) There should be more than two outcomes to the naval battle rather than just "you win" and "you lose". It would be extremely satisfying if your high skills or careful preparations could help save at least some lives - better fleet being not crushed entirely but merely forced to retreat, bearing huge\severe casualties.

4) There should be in-game description of what moods are better for what skills.

5) Is deciphering entirely useless?..

6) It'd make lots of sense if you could utilize your Lumen skills for the bandit ambush.

7) Is there a non-magic, non-music, non-Godly-naval way of actually winning the game? If not, there should be. Perfect manners should allow you to attract some allies to fend off the threat. Ultimate intrigue should allow to send assassins to the enemy leader.

8) It would make perfect gameplay sense to merge Athletics into a single skill (as all its' subskills are hardly ever used) and replace nearly useless Polearms skill with it. Probably some renames would be needed then: e. g. "Combat" skill with Archery, Fencing and Athletics subskills.


All in all, can't wait for the final version - the game is just too good already! I hope to see similar games from you in the future .

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hanako
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#84 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:15 am

1) Winning the magic duel requiring the Sword skill has "What?" written all over it.
Logically there's no way you should be able to win that fight via pure magic. You have at best been a Lumen for a couple of months. He's a guy plotting to take over the world who has been playing a long game for YEARS, and intentionally set you up to be a weak target before invading your country. He knows way more about this than you do, and especially about the formal constraints of the duel he's set up (have you found the plot threads about crystal resonances?) Your magic allowing you to create a sword of light is also spelled out in the fluff text when you hit Wield Magic 50. So IMO it's not _that_ out of the blue. :)

3) There should be more than two outcomes to the naval battle rather than just "you win" and "you lose". It would be extremely satisfying if your high skills or careful preparations could help save at least some lives - better fleet being not crushed entirely but merely forced to retreat, bearing huge\severe casualties.
Fluffing the outcome of the naval battle more descriptively is in my list of things to get to; especially because it'll help people see how close they're getting to having enough strength to win it.
5) Is deciphering entirely useless?
Ciphering is not the most useless skill in the game (my current bet for 'most useless skill' is probably Falcons. It had to be there for meta-reasons, but the only thing it can ever do for you in the entire game you're much, much better off using something else for instead).

However, the only events it comes up in are rare ones, and you only get extra information out of them, so it's really only fun for completionists.

Might at some point add an option to learn a particular bit of actually-useful information via ciphering for people who didn't hire a spy.
6) It'd make lots of sense if you could utilize your Lumen skills for the bandit ambush.
It all happens too fast. If you survive the initial assault you could use your Lumen skills to drive them off, but if you survived the initial assault you don't need to because they get driven off anyway.
7) Is there a non-magic, non-music, non-Godly-naval way of actually winning the game?
Let someone else fight the duel for you.

Or go for the evil ending, if you count that as winning the game. :) (We may need to tone down the difficulty of the evil ending, I'm not sure anyone has managed to achieve it yet.)


The athletics skills don't have a lot of uses at the moment (Climbing is in the competition for most useless skill. It does something, but Not Much.), but Polearms actually has more checks on it than Archery does. Polearms, like Falcons, is also required for secret meta-reasons. :)

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LateWhiteRabbit
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#85 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:31 am

iselwin wrote: 1) Winning the magic duel requiring the Sword skill has "What?" written all over it.
I just encountered this, and I have to agree. It should be possible to win with Lumen alone, right? I had maxed out all Lumen skills to 100, so I expected to wipe the floor during the duel. Instead I lost because I didn't know how to use a sword? I went "WHAT?!" as well.

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hanako
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#86 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:46 am

I do not believe it is logical to beat him in a fair fight via Lumen skills alone. Even if you max them, SO DID HE. He is the Big Bad after all.

If you want to take him down using Lumen magic alone, you need to use the conjunction effect to sink the fleet with magic.

If I think of a cool option using some other skill I might add it, but you're always going to need more than magic to handle that one. The magic just keeps you alive long enough to think of something else. (An Athletics roll for *tackling* him in the middle of spellcasting, maybe?)

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#87 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:16 am

hanako wrote:I do not believe it is logical to beat him in a fair fight via Lumen skills alone. Even if you max them, SO DID HE. He is the Big Bad after all.

If you want to take him down using Lumen magic alone, you need to use the conjunction effect to sink the fleet with magic.

If I think of a cool option using some other skill I might add it, but you're always going to need more than magic to handle that one. The magic just keeps you alive long enough to think of something else. (An Athletics roll for *tackling* him in the middle of spellcasting, maybe?)
I like the idea of more options, but I think the main problem everyone is expressing is that we had no idea HOW powerful this guy is. We had no indication that max Lumen skills were not going to be sufficient, because apparently in this case max skills for the player do not equal the max skill level possible in that skill for an NPC. Because at best, if he is maxed on Lumen and we are maxed on Lumen, a draw should happen.

I think if you made it more clear in the lead up to the duel that his Lumen is more powerful that yours it would keep the fight from feeling so cheap to some of us.

Because we are told it is specifically a Lumen duel, those of us who maxed Lumen feel cheated, because we based our decision to enter the duel on the fact our Lumen skills could be no higher, thus assuring us victory unless HE cheated.

It just feels a little like being challenged to a pistol duel and losing because you aren't good with a knife. :?

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hanako
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#88 Post by hanako » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:20 am

Fair enough, a high Sense Magic skill should probably warn you more clearly before the duel that you're in trouble.




Latest beta now adds a display of mood changes to the map for selecting weekend activities. Let me know how it goes.

(Special events will not reveal all their secrets, but standard ones will.)

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LateWhiteRabbit
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#89 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:59 am

hanako wrote: Latest beta now adds a display of mood changes to the map for selecting weekend activities. Let me know how it goes.

(Special events will not reveal all their secrets, but standard ones will.)
That is so much better. The mouse-over works great, and it really allows me to make informed decisions about what the Princess's weekend activities.

It seems to be updating fine week to week as well.

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#90 Post by iselwin » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:07 pm

hanako wrote:
Logically there's no way you should be able to win that fight via pure magic.
...but it's still not too much to ask for an option to win via magic + something other than sword :).
(have you found the plot threads about crystal resonances?)
Yay, more stuff to do!
Your magic allowing you to create a sword of light is also spelled out in the fluff text when you hit Wield Magic 50.
I thought it was just a fluff :). Could you also add some additional fluff text to the 100 Wield Magic to emphasise that Magic Sword is your ultimate combat technique?

6) It'd make lots of sense if you could utilize your Lumen skills for the bandit ambush.
It all happens too fast.
One problem I have with your approach is that you take plausibility over gameplay :). Frustration "OMG, my bui;ld is useless here" is much more angering one over "Hm, I wonder if that could happen in real world" (yeah, 'cos Lumen happen everywhere).

If you survive the initial assault you could use your Lumen skills to drive them off
A compromise suggestion - if you fail reflex+archery roll, attempt Reflex+Wield Magic roll for Matrixesque "Drop arrows" magic defense :).

7) Is there a non-magic, non-music, non-Godly-naval way of actually winning the game?
Let someone else fight the duel for you.
Not an option if you've already started the Lumen path :(.

Or go for the evil ending, if you count that as winning the game. :) (We may need to tone down the difficulty of the evil ending, I'm not sure anyone has managed to achieve it yet.)
Would be nice :).



One more question - if naval battle uses a way too difficult roll to be displayed, is it possible at least to display a message like "Failed complex check", or are all messages strictly skill-related?

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