Alpha Bug Reports / Feedback

Rule the world - or die trying!
Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
hanako
Site Admin
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am

#61 Post by hanako » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:25 pm

I definitely wouldn't plan to make LOTS of games this hard, people would run away screaming. :)

Sorry for the delay on the art, the artist has been having trouble with her internet connection. She's only been able to get on by phone for a while now and therefore can't upload big files.

manfromba
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:35 am
Location: Ba

#62 Post by manfromba » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:07 am

Well, this game may be difficult (I just played through my first playthrough after buying it), but at least it is all turnbased. In addition, it is not random. This is good. I am now aware that there are many ways to play and end it.

It is complex in world and game play - more than standard good country / evil country.

Congratulations, Hanako, on making such a game. It may be risky, but I hope that it can be profitable.

I have rarely been so blown away by a game before.

Yuki
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:58 am

#63 Post by Yuki » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:20 pm

Overall, I think it's good. Some parts of it remind me of a roguelike game I tried to design a few years ago, but later gave up on, as I didn't think it'd work very well.

Some thoughts after a few days worth of play:

*I kind of liked the tension of the game, even if Fantasy Fan didn't.

*It's a shame it isn't longer, with the major events spaced out a little more. Some random events here and there might have been good. Putting it all on the rails does limit its replay value a little.

*I found the internal affairs to be rather convoluted and I kept forgetting who the different people were, especially when there's so many involved, but then again, I'm not very well at the moment and I'm thick anyway.

*Same with the different countries. I think a map might have been helpful, just to get a feel of where different places are.

*There's a way to check how much money you have, but no way of checking how big your army or navy is. I thought this might be helpful.

Aletea
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:08 am

#64 Post by Aletea » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:02 pm

Wanted to put in my two cents :)

Having a world map that you could look at in-game would be very helpful, just for picturing things. Maybe that could even be used for demonstrating your troops? You know, have how many troops you have at a particular location, if they're patrolling a border, etc.

On the same vein as that, having some kind of genealogy chart that demonstrates how the characters are connected to each other might also be helpful with the internal affairs bit. (Heh, that wouldn't necessarily need to be in game - maybe once the game is further along, someone could make out a chart and post it to the forums)

On the issue of game length, I'm split; with it like it is, every single turn counts. It makes the game more tense, but I kind of like that. The idea of it being longer (maybe without important events everyday, but a few random events sprinkled throughout) is appealing if you wanted a more relaxed gameplay. I like it like it is, though - I've been playing it quite a bit, and the replay value is still going strong because of all the different ways to play it.

User avatar
flwriter124
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 10:32 pm

#65 Post by flwriter124 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:11 pm

found a problem in 0.5.41, when talking to the duchess of ursul about the extra lumen crystal, instead of her name it only said ursul, the text suddenly was white and ran in one line that started on the ribbon to the left and finished on the ribbon on the right. the next screen of her talking had the same problem. has this been caught yet?

biscuit
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:44 pm

#66 Post by biscuit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:17 pm

Whoops! I remember that too, but was too immersed in the story to send a proper report. Same issue here.

User avatar
hanako
Site Admin
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am

#67 Post by hanako » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:45 pm

Randomness is definitely off the table for this game - it would mean playthroughs could become unwinnable through no fault of the player. I don't WANT a longer or more relaxed game. There are different games for that. :)

(The ursul thing is known about and I think there's a fix in alpha, it just hasn't been pushed forward because I'm hoping that we'll manage to get some art uploaded soon. Still technical problems.)

I do personally have a map and a geneology chart, but I'm currently not sure it's a good idea to put them into the game.

No information on the map is actually meaningful in terms of player decisions. You never have to make choices based on things being closer or further away. I'm worried that if it's put into the game somewhere, people will stress out about trying to learn that information which they don't need and be distracted from the things they do need to think about.

I don't mind putting a map on the forums, though, for people to see as a supplemental thing. My existing map is quite ugly and I don't think people would like it, but I may be able to get a nicer one made eventually.

Displaying troop movements on a domain map would be interesting but to use that really well I think we would have needed to design more specific troop locations from the beginning. Most of the time 'available military' is just kept in a giant lump - they're only sent off to special places if you choose to send them, and if you do that you can't get them back so it doesn't really matter where they are.

As for the geneology, again I do have a hand-drawn chart but it's MADLY complicated with lines and arrows everywhere; it would be difficult to formulate it into a clear thing to look at inside the game. I am trying to provide background information whenever it's useful in-game to a decision that you make so it shouldn't matter too much if you-the-player can't keep all the relations straight. Are there any points you've encountered where not being able to remember the relationships was an actual problem for the decisions you needed to make?

Once we have all the pictures I can make some nice interlinked HTML family charts to post to the forums. :)

manfromba
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:35 am
Location: Ba

#68 Post by manfromba » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:03 pm

Maybe the game could have a genealogical chart that grows and reflects the princess's knowledge of her family? It would be a lot of work, I am aware, but it would allow players to keep track of the characters in such a way as to reflect what the character knows without spoiling anything.

User avatar
hanako
Site Admin
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am

#69 Post by hanako » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:21 pm

It is assumed that the princess already knows the basic family relationships of the major nobles, although she may not remember the details of people who died more than ten years ago. This is her world, after all.

The stuff that comes up in classes is generally adding specific details and juicy gossip to her knowledge of people she already vaguely knows.

Elodie always knows who her father's brother is and what his position is. It may be news to the player, but not to her.

The difficulty is not in representing what the character knows, because the character has pretty-much full geneological knowledge from the very beginning. The difficulty is that the family trees are very tangled and hard to get across in a clear visual manner within the game that would not leave a player more confused than they were when they started.

Arisse has been married three times. She was the second wife of her first husband, who already had a son at that time. Between her first and second husbands, she gave birth to six children. She then married her third husband, who already had five children of his own. Many of these people are now adults with families of their own. Many of these people are not important enough to ever come up in the game! And those twelve children include the ex Duke of Mead (deceased) the current Duchess of Mead, the Duchess-Consort of Kigal, the Earl of Io, and the future Duke of Elath. IT'S COMPLICATED. :)

manfromba
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:35 am
Location: Ba

#70 Post by manfromba » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:48 pm

Well then, how about a family tree that merely reflects the gossip that she learns?

and a political chart to cover what she knows about dukes' relationships with each other and other countries (to say nothing of other countries' relations with her country)?

Yuki
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:58 am

#71 Post by Yuki » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:55 pm

Are there any points you've encountered where not being able to remember the relationships was an actual problem for the decisions you needed to make?
Bear in mind that i'm stil not 100% in control of my faculties at the moment, so sorry if this sounds stupid.

When you're talking to the old guy, who dies shortly after the celebration, he tells you about who he wants the kid to go with when he's gone and he goes through a lot of his family and I couldn't remember who he actually wanted him to go with when I was given the choice.

Also, I don't get why the other guy (Kevin?) wanted to kill me during the tournament. He was complaining about his family's blood being on my hands (Elodie doesn't seem to know anything about this), so I thought it had something to do with the civil war, but this event seems to occur whether the civil war happens or not. Is this right?

IT'S COMPLICATED.
But did it really need to be? It's hard to know if you're making the right choice without being able to see the big picture, and the more complicated it is, the harder it is to see.
a political chart to cover what she knows about dukes' relationships with each other and other countries (to say nothing of other countries' relations with her country)?
That would be a bit of a nuissance to program considering how many there are, not to mention the problem of laying it out.

User avatar
hanako
Site Admin
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am

#72 Post by hanako » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:30 pm

When you're talking to the old guy, who dies shortly after the celebration, he tells you about who he wants the kid to go with when he's gone and he goes through a lot of his family and I couldn't remember who he actually wanted him to go with when I was given the choice.
Ah, okay, that needs an extra reminder when the time comes.

As for making the 'right' choice, there's a lot more that goes into it than just who's related to whom. :)
Also, I don't get why the other guy (Kevin?) wanted to kill me during the tournament. He was complaining about his family's blood being on my hands (Elodie doesn't seem to know anything about this), so I thought it had something to do with the civil war, but this event seems to occur whether the civil war happens or not. Is this right?
He's related to a lot of people and there are two different ways that can trigger. One of them is the civil war, but when that's the case Elodie knows what he's talking about and will remind the player that you executed his mother Arisse after winning the civil war.

When Elodie has no idea what he's talking about, that's because he's upset about Briony (his niece) having run off and gotten herself killed. If you didn't get involved in her subplot Elodie may have had no clue that Briony was dead. SHE is completely confused about what he's talking about, and HE'S too upset to explain. (Kevan is... Unstable.) In the case where you're supposed to know what he's talking about, Elodie adds a line to remind the player that Briony was his niece.

manfromba
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:35 am
Location: Ba

#73 Post by manfromba » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:15 pm

Yuki wrote:

That would be a bit of a nuissance to program considering how many there are, not to mention the problem of laying it out.
Not necessarily.

Say we have a list like so:
Character Deeds Relationship Status
Duke A I insulted him at a ball, Maternal Uncle Wary


Duke B I barely know him Father's Friend Neutral

Etc.

User avatar
hanako
Site Admin
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:44 am

#74 Post by hanako » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:49 am

Beta 5.42 adds extra reminders for the Elath situation if you talked to the guy at the gala.

User avatar
LateWhiteRabbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:13 pm

#75 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:24 pm

I haven't managed to reach a coronation yet, but I love the DANGER in the game.

I think the game desperately needs a map in-game. Picturing fake geography in my head AND keeping up with what is happening where and why is a little overwhelming.

It would be nice if the player could pull up a map at any time, especially when a country or province is mentioned and be able to see where it is. It would be even better if the player could click on each location and see what the Crown Princess knows about each one - i.e. what she learned in history classes, and to be able to see what NPCs come from which location.

I also second (third, or fourth?) that NPCs need more information given, especially considering the focus of the game is intrigue and politics. I'm sure it will be a lot easier to keep NPCs straight once the graphics are added, but it would be great to be able to click on the NPCs portrait (once it is there) and be given a summary of that person along with pertinent details.

My final feedback for the moment is that I wish it was more clear what classes and skills each Mood affected. More feedback from the game on which Weekend Activities affected what Moods would also be good for making informed decisions. Even after hours of gameplay and multiple playthroughs I often forget which Activity does precisely what. I.e. "Does Attending Court increase Yielding by 2, or Pressure by 2? What was that other Mood it affected again?" A mouse-over would be appreciated, or something to that affect.

Locked