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LateWhiteRabbit
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#106 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:56 pm

hanako wrote: The only things that are affecting your bonuses and penalties is your 'Current Mood' status and the related skills you've studied. I have no idea what you mean by events and actions. :)
Wait, really?! Because I could have sworn certain events always gave penalties. For instance, across multiple games, if I try to enter the Treasury and fail both checks, my Royal Decorum and Economics skills take a major penalty hit. I guess it's possible that my mood is always the exact same at that point in each game, but I wouldn't think so.

Is the last mood point gained what affects skill bonuses and penalties rather than where the heart is on each spectrum? :?
hanako wrote: (There are some rare circumstances where a game event can leave you in a special mood called 'Injured', but in that case the mood screen will still display your current mood as Injured.)
Yeah, I've encountered that. In that case it was actually pretty clear what was going on, i.e. Elodie stating she wouldn't be able to do anything "strenuous" for a while, then seeing the -3.00 penalties in all the Physical skills.
hanako wrote: It's all a matter of math. A fractional amount of the learned skills in each subset gets added to the subset bonus. An even smaller fractional amount of the learned skills in each category gets added to the category bonus. Any time that the numbers don't match up, there's a mood effect in place.
I understand all that. I just don't know WHAT mood effect is in place. Like should I make Elodie more Cheerful to remove this penalty, or does she need to be more Willful?

And sometimes it seems the penalties or bonuses just reset for a category after certain events - like the Treasury event I mentioned above. If I fail that event, the penalty to Royal Decorum and Economics is ALWAYS -2.00, regardless of what it was before.
hanako wrote: There could be a marker by them indicating that they're being affected by a mood at the moment, but there's nothing else to breakdown! The problem isn't that it's not transparent, the problem is that it's a lot of data and people's minds have trouble dealing with it. Making the display more complicated might make that problem worse.
Well, something in game to tell me what mood Elodie is being affected by at the moment (on the skills screen) would be great.

The amount of data people have to keep up with in their head is indeed the trouble. There are so many skills, and so many moods, that even if you figure out which relates to which, it is still very difficult to remember that information.

Making that information easier to see in game - even if it is just telling us which Skill Category is affected by which Mood Spectrum would be a big help. If I could just see on the Skills Screen that the Conversation category of skills is affected by the Cheerful/Depressed Mood spectrum, I could tell by the penalty or bonus in place which direction I would need to take that mood to remove or gain the bonus or penalty.

Or simply have the mouse-over say "+1.0 from Cheerful" or "-1.0 from Depressed". That would tell the player very quickly what part of the bonus is from fractional skill gains and what part is from the mood AND what that mood is.

I think icons would indeed complicate the display too much, and with 8 moods that would mean 8 symbols or icons to keep straight on top of everything else. I do think one way to do it might be to have an "information" icon on each skill category that gave the information I suggested above when moused-over or clicked.

EDIT: I think because Skill gains and Mood Manipulation are the "core" of the gameplay, this really needs to be as user-friendly as possible.

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hanako
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#107 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:16 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: Wait, really?! Because I could have sworn certain events always gave penalties. For instance, across multiple games, if I try to enter the Treasury and fail both checks, my Royal Decorum and Economics skills take a major penalty hit. I guess it's possible that my mood is always the exact same at that point in each game, but I wouldn't think so.

Is the last mood point gained what affects skill bonuses and penalties rather than where the heart is on each spectrum? :?
No, it's the 'current mood' and nothing else. It doesn't matter what the last mood point gained was, the last mood point gained might not affect your current mood at all, depending on the status of everything beforehand. If your Economics skill tanked, you probably got pushed into a Willful mood by your failed attempt.

Check the Mood screen.
hanako wrote: It's all a matter of math. A fractional amount of the learned skills in each subset gets added to the subset bonus. An even smaller fractional amount of the learned skills in each category gets added to the category bonus. Any time that the numbers don't match up, there's a mood effect in place.
I understand all that. I just don't know WHAT mood effect is in place. Like should I make Elodie more Cheerful to remove this penalty, or does she need to be more Willful?
I'm not sure I follow. You'd need to change her current mood. How to change her mood depends on what her mood is and what all the mood bars are set to.

If everything is set to 0 except for 1 point of yielding, then you're in a Yielding mood. Gaining 1 point of willful would bring you into Neutral mood, which has no bonuses or penalties at all. Gaining 1 point of Cheerful, however, would bring you into Cheerful mood (because bars further to the left take precedence in a tie) and give you a different set of bonuses and penalties.

Check the mood screen, that's why it's there! You need to look at the whole picture to see how a change is going to affect her mood.
Well, something in game to tell me what mood Elodie is being affected by at the moment (on the skills screen) would be great.
Check the mood screen, that's why it's there!

You can also (in most cases) tell what her current mood is as soon as you enter Elodie's bedroom, because her facial expression will tell you.
Making that information easier to see in game - even if it is just telling us which Skill Category is affected by which Mood Spectrum would be a big help. If I could just see on the Skills Screen that the Conversation category of skills is affected by the Cheerful/Depressed Mood spectrum
But that's not how it works, so displaying that would definitely mislead people. :) A bonus on one end doesn't necessarily equate to a penalty on the other, many skills are affected by multiple moods, and so on.
Or simply have the mouse-over say "+1.0 from Cheerful" or "-1.0 from Depressed". That would tell the player very quickly what part of the bonus is from fractional skill gains and what part is from the mood AND what that mood is.
I really don't want to print any more numbers on that screen. Numbers scare people, and that screen already has so many. Mouseover data wouldn't make things clearer, it would make things more jumbled.

Wasn't thinking of 8+ icons, though, was thinking of just up and down arrows so you could see at a glance which skills were currently being altered.

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LateWhiteRabbit
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#108 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:26 pm

hanako wrote: *snip*
Hmm. Okay. Apparently I'm just over-thinking everything. :oops:

Question 1: Does the Current Mood give different penalties or bonus amounts to different skill categories? For instance, right now in my current game Elodie's mood is Cheerful, and her Weapons are -1.00 and her Military is -2.00. Are both the result of the Cheerful mood, or is something else also affecting Military?

Question 2: Currently in my game Elodie's Cheerful and Yielding mood meters are maxed, yet her current mood is Cheerful. Do certain moods take precedence over others? And if so, how do I tell which one will? Is the only way to make Elodie's mood "Yielding" in this case to drop Cheerful by 1?

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hanako
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#109 Post by hanako » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:33 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: Question 1: Does the Current Mood give different penalties or bonus amounts to different skill categories? For instance, right now in my current game Elodie's mood is Cheerful, and her Weapons are -1.00 and her Military is -2.00. Are both the result of the Cheerful mood, or is something else also affecting Military?
Both resulting from Cheerful.
Question 2: Currently in my game Elodie's Cheerful and Yielding mood meters are maxed, yet her current mood is Cheerful. Do certain moods take precedence over others? And if so, how do I tell which one will? Is the only way to make Elodie's mood "Yielding" in this case to drop Cheerful by 1?
Bars further to the left take precedence in a tie - I tried to order them in terms of emotional importance. Fight-or-flight drowns out everything else, so Fear/Anger is furthest left.

So yes, you need to drop Cheerful down a point to go into Yielding mood.

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#110 Post by Yuki » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:49 am

hanako wrote:Getting the crystal off the convict is not what's needed to have four. You can't use that crystal at all, as was mentioned in the epilogue.
Of course not. I even read it before sending you the transcript. Why did I actually write that? :x :oops:

Just...give me a week or so...

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hanako
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#111 Post by hanako » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:43 am

Things now available in Beta -

Some better feedback on what's happening during the naval battle.
A new secret way to get more ships for the naval battle, which no one will use because it requires you to do something stupid near the beginning of the game :)
Another way to win the duel with Togami.
An adjustment to the amount of evil needed for the super evil ending
Week display
Joslyn now has a head

This beta is not as well tested as usual because as you may have seen in the announcement section I have been having a pretty rough day! I'm borrowing someone else's net connection but I don't know how stable that will be.

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#112 Post by hanako » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:46 pm

Some more character heads have been added to the latest beta.

We are discussing the possibility of letting you click on a character you're currently talking to to get a brief refresher of who they are and who they're related to, but NOT to let you wander through the whole set of relationships (which would be distracting). Would this be something people want, or is it not enough to make a difference?

Any feedback on the duel changes?

We have a really cool new map courtesy of LateWhiteRabbit but my internet woes at the moment make it impossible for me to build and distribute new installers right now. I'll be linking it up on the forum when I can.

Aletea
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#113 Post by Aletea » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:41 pm

I love the idea of being able to click on the character and get a refresher! There have been times where I'm talking to someone, and I'm suddenly thinking, "Wait...who is this? I know their name. I've seen them in other events. But who are they?"

I definitely like how you can now choose how to make your final move in the duel, now. It makes it feel more interactive, which is always a plus.

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#114 Post by FantasyFan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:27 pm

I am definitely in favor of the click-on-character-to-get-info idea. It will be a great way to get more involved with the characters.

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#115 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:12 pm

hanako wrote: We are discussing the possibility of letting you click on a character you're currently talking to to get a brief refresher of who they are and who they're related to, but NOT to let you wander through the whole set of relationships (which would be distracting). Would this be something people want, or is it not enough to make a difference?
I'm definitely in favor of this. The cast of characters is quite large, and some aren't interacted with but a few times, so I think being able to get a refresher on who they are when you are talking to them is a great idea.

EDIT: Though playing with the additional portraits is already making this a little easier.

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New version in beta

#116 Post by Spiky Caterpillar » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 am

There are new dialogue sprites for characters, and some partial dossiers so you can research characters a bit more in-game. Click the '?' button next to a character to bring their dossier up. (Not every character has a dossier; if there is a character you think should have one who doesn't yet, let us know.). The dossier layout is still under construction (we already know the text wrapping is wrong in the dossiers, f'rinstance).

Also, we've built an Android test version. We're not sure how well it will work, though - the keyboard is completely messed up in the emulator, and the UI was originally designed for desktop computers rather than touchscreens - I expect it probably won't be comfortable on a phone, but a tablet will work. If you want to try the Android version, PM me a copy of your receipt and I'll send you the download links.

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#117 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm

It feels a little awkward to have to click on the dossier at the top of the screen to close it. In fact it took me a moment to figure out how to close it at all. It just seems like it makes the player take an extra step or mouse movement while reading.

It seems much more intuitive to click on the '?' a second time to close the dossier, like a toggle switch. It also means one less movement on the part of a reading player.

Aside from that, the dossier system is a big improvement and so far seems to show just the right amount of information on each character.

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#118 Post by Yuki » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:10 am

I think I've just encountered a stange phenomenon. :o

I've just played the game again with all of the new character portraits and it's surprised me a bit. With the exception of Togami, some of these characters look very different to how I imagined they'd look when all I had was the text.

I suppose it's like what happens when you read a book and then see a movie adaptation later on.

Is it just me, or has anyone else felt this?

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#119 Post by FantasyFan » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:41 pm

Well, I was expecting the king to look a bit older, so I understand what you're talking about. I like the new potraits, though. I'm hoping the final version of the game will have some event CGs and possibly a gallery.

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hanako
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#120 Post by hanako » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:17 pm

Since I had to write it all long before getting any art, much of it is a surprise to me too. :)

But no, there is not going to be a bunch of cgs and gallery in this release. While I haven't been able to look at the game lately because of my connection woes, afaik most of what's missing at the moment is the new map, the coronation scene, the title screen, and finishing up the designs of the dossiers.

(They were supposed to hook up our new broadband today. Supposed to. Which of course meant we sat around all day, nobody shows, called at the very end of the scheduled slot and were told they were 'on their way', still nobody shows, call again and be told the transfer hasn't gone through yet so they can't come out after all, call them again tomorrow to book a new appointment... Sigh.)

Naturally, if it sells well and if the artist is available there might be a deluxe edition/expansion later with some new plot branches and CGs and such, but one never knows about these things.

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